The original title of this post has been changed.
There has been a substantial fire set amongst those who claim Christianity as their official religion of choice. Last week’s youtube video “Does God Love Everyone” set thousands ablaze as they wrestled with the hard-sayings of Dr. Morey. I have heard people say that “regardless of what the Bible says, I believe that God loves everyone!”
It gets worse. The pseudo-intellectuals began to creep into the discussions. One of the earlier responses I got was:
“Theologians want to capture the essence of the God who hates but I believe that He simply refuses to acknowledge sinners. He doesn’t know them… never knew them. He only hears the cries of sinners who acknowledge their need of Christ.
I don’t think that any of us can truly wrap our thoughts around God’s anger or hatred, but I believe that He spends more time dishing out love and mercy than anger or hate. I also do not believe that God would want us spending alot [sic] of time espousing hate as it relates to a loving God.
I was not impressed by Dr. Bob’s delivery in that youtube diatribe.”
I responded: “Scripture says He hates, so, you have to deal with that.”
He came back with:
“The emphasis that I gather from scripture is that it is because of love that Christ died. God can do and will do whatever He likes including hate but I don’t have to deal with it… He does!
My kids are sinners but I don’t hate them. I don’t make a big deal out their ignorance and I don’t tell them I hate them.
We are God’s kids.”
To that, I said: “Well, no, you do have to deal with it. If you tell everyone that God loves them, and come to find out that the Bible says that God doesn’t love everyone, and that in fact He “hates” the sinner (not just their sin), a decision must be made on your part. You either,
a) change your message to match what is revealed in Scripture, or
b) arrogantly ignore what the Bible has to say about it and continue to lie every time you open your mouth.
Not dealing with something is some people’s way of dealing with something. You gotta deal with it, and you are!”
This was only a warm-up. Next came the usual onslaught of ad hominem attacks and rabbit trails, of which I’ll blog later. This is always the case whenever Scripture is perceived as confrontational and threatening to humanistic religious comfort zones. Rather than submissively bowing to the authority of Scripture for what to believe and how to live, the posers shroud themselves in maddening chaos, ignorance, and disorder. Having learned the majority of their theology from Christian pop-songs on the radio and church youth department T-shirt slogans, a tune like the one Dr. Morey sang makes them want to change the channel. Since they are undiscerning and accepting of any music that satisfies their lusts, they ignore the lyrics as long as they enjoy the beat. Dr. Morey knows this, and that is why he pointed to the exit sign. If you can’t accept what Scripture says, then leave and find your own religion!
So, what’s with the title? I’ve been renewed in my amazement of how reluctant and resistant professing Christians have become to accepting what the Bible actually says. Scripture says God hated Esau, Christians say He loves everyone. As we advance the New Reformation, we must leave something for the next generation, should God be pleased to grant it. We must leave them with a legacy to carry on with slogans, mottos, stories, victories, etc. Let us mark Dr. Morey’s video release, and the reaction of the uprooted, as the day the Apostle Paul was declared a lazy Martian – even though Scripture says he was a zealous Jew! When they try to correct us, let us answer them according to their folly and say, “I don’t care what it says, I believe he was a lazy Martian!” By God’s grace, some of them may have their eyes opened.
{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
It seems the guy was getting confused with the terms. I would probably have clarified first. We are all sinners, but there is the redeemed sinner who is cleansed but actively fights against the sin even though he will never truly triumphs until the end. Then there is the unsaved sinner who lives in darkness and swims around in his sin all day. The guy is not distinguishing between the two, and that is where his problem lies. Connected to that is his analogy of his own kids. God doesn’t hate His children. He loves us and that’s why He saved us. The people He hates are the devil’s children. Most people don’t seem to realize that if people are told they are loved by God already, they’ll have no reason to change. I make a slight jab at this in passing at a short story I wrote a couple years ago (Life & Liberty, on my blog). Dr. Bob isn’t saying God hates everyone, just that He doesn’t love everyone. There is a difference, and that’s the point that makes everything matter.
Becky, good discernment. Clarity makes things…you know, clear!
Here’s a link to Becky’s article that she referenced in the comment above: Life & Liberty
I think the understanding of the hatred of God is obviously something many people, including Christians, do not fully understand. Since God is infinitely perfect, He is completely justified in this hatred to unregenerate sinners. In other words, God is perfect in His hatred.
However, praise God for saving and choosing sinful men for His glory. For those who are saved will never experience the full wrath of God instead receive the reward of eternal joy through Jesus Christ.
It seems like this whole things has people assuming that hate is the opposite of love, which it isn’t. Also, it seems as if people are saying that hate is the same as wrath…they’re not the same. Just some thoughts from a very non-theological “trying to seek out the truth from God’s Word on my own (Acts 17:11)” mommy brain.
Other People: “I was not impressed by Dr. Bob’s delivery in that youtube video.”
Answer: I can understand that. Not everyone can appreciate his style. I find it quite humorous, but others not as much. Nevertheless, the theology is accurate.
Other People: Well, I disagree. Regardless of what the Bible says, I believe that God loves everyone!
Answer: I know. The Bible warns me about people like you who claim to be Christian but seek out teachers who only tell them what they want to hear. It also tells me they are going to hell which is exactly where you’ll go if you keep it up.
Other people: “My kids are sinners but I don’t hate them. I don’t make a big deal out their ignorance and I don’t tell them I hate them. We are God’s kids.”
Answer: Who’s we? All people are God’s kids? The Bible says some people are going to hell. Would you send your kids to hell? (rhetorical, of course). Either your analogy doesn’t work or not all people are God’s kids.
Other people: When the Bible says that God loved Jacob and hated Esau, it really means he loves Esau less.
Answer: : “So God loves everyone, but obviously some a lot less than others? Isn’t that contrary to your thesis of God loving everyone? Besides, the translation doesn’t say loved less or loved more, it says hate. Even if you don’t like the translation the Greek indicates active hatred. And…AND, the context in Malachi implies active and involved hatred.
Other People: “well….ummmm…..God just left Esau alone.”
Answer: So letting somebody go to hell is simply loving somebody less, it’s not hatred? If you have a co-worker who is going to do something foolish or idiotic that will get him fired, would allowing him to continue in that path be a sign of love or of hatred? Obviously, if you had any love or even like for that person you’d intervene. But by doing nothing you show your dislike or hatred. Yet somehow if God allows a person to continue on their way to hell you don’t consider that an indication of hatred? And again, despite our argument, the Bible doesn’t say what you are saying. It says hate.
Other People: Well, you’re an unloving jerk.
Answer: Actually, I’m commanded to love my enemies which is what I’m doind. I’m trying to save you from hell. If I was an unloving jerk, I’d just let you keep going.
People, unbeliever and believer, in this country are not used to hearing that God hates the sinner. Churches in America stress so much on God’s love and not enough on His hatred. When they hear that God hates the sinner, they cannot believe their ears. Believers will immediately argue back without looking at what the Bible says. Its hard to accept it. Even I struggled with it for a while but I came to accept and to understand that God hates the sin as well as the sinner.
My senior year in highschool I took an Apologetics class (I went to Calvary Chapel Christian School) and the teacher brought up Psalm 5:5 where it says that God hate who do iniquity. The class came to the conclusion that the verse is talkint about sin, not the sinner. I was the only one who argued that the verse is talking about the sinner, not the sin.
You cannot just teach on God’s love, you have to speak about His hatred too. There needs to be a balance of both.
Your sister in Christ,
Ashley
The war against Christianity by its modern counterfeit which is sentimental, personal, emotional and biblically bankrupt must be countered from the Bible and the Bible alone. In this regard Dr. Morey leads many towards recapturing that which has been stolen from us by pulpiteers who know neither God or His word. An old preacher many years ago said the “Road to hell is paved with the skulls of unregenerate preachers of the Gospel”. I pray that many will heed the preaching of an old Gospel and many will proclaim it. Thank you Dr Morey for doing just that in the midst of a reprobate nation and apostate church.
Ashley,
I liked hearing your story. I wonder what they say about the sinner going to hell?
Next they’ll say God is not a jealous God.
Ps 5: 5 The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; You hate all who do wrong.
Ps. 5 6 You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.
Ps. 11: 5 The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.
Ps. 11: 6 On the wicked He will rain fiery coals and burning sulfur; a scorching wind will be their lot.
Psa 7:11 God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day.
How many times must God say that He hates the wicked for those who claim Jesus as their Master, for them to actually believe it? This shows that they don’t want God to define Himself, but they rather have a God they can fashion.
Does God love? Yes, but the question is what or who is the primary object of HIS love? Is it us? Think about this: The Gospel has God at its center, Salvation has God at its center, and all of history has God at its center. Indeed both salvation and history have Christ at its culmination too. Its all to HIS glory and HIS grace, for we are HIS (not our) workmanship.
I agree with others here regarding how many “Christians” find Scripture insufficient. I have found that Scripture is never enough for a scholar nor skeptic.
And it amazes me when I dogmatically stand for Scripture being the ONLY source and authority for life and godliness for the Christian, I’m ridiculed, insulted, told I”m a gnostic, told I’m like the cult Church of Christ, etc. I won’t use the Creeds, Confessions, and Ecumenical Councils to declare the Truths of Scripture: God has already spoken in His living and pure Word. I’d rather go straight to that which is inerrant, and forever True. If it was good enough for Jesus, its good enough for me. =) (Remember how Jesus dealt with Satan in the desert?)
Denise, you wrote:
“And it amazes me when I dogmatically stand for Scripture being the ONLY source and authority for life and godliness for the Christian, I’m ridiculed, insulted,…”
Not here, sister! It’s a battle out there, you’ll find refreshment here (on these kinds of posts that is).
Its not amazing to me that God hates wicked men, its amazing that God transforms some of them and declares them righteous.
Its not amazing to me that God has not elected all men. Its amazing that God called and elected a ‘numberless mulititude’ that were redeemed from a world in rebellion and sin.
Its not amazing to me that God will not acquit sin and refuses to impune his holiness or his name with the vileness of any mans supposed good works. Its amazing to me that God went to the trouble and planning, the longsuffering and patience to send His Son into the world to redeem anyone of us.
Until we really see things from God’s point of view we will always be amazed that God doesnt look at us from the pseudo-god mentality we have of ourselves. Its the mentality that God cannot be God unless he
loves everyone, saves everyone and insults no-one’s self-image.
Its what one theologian called the ‘upward fall’. Meaning that man didnt view the temptation in the garden as a lessening of his abilities but a gaining of more abilities. It is the perpetuation of the lie that we ’shall be like God’.
I’m sure Mexicans love to be sterotyped this way. Now they’ll want to listen to what you want to say.
Samuel
Did you even read the blog, or did you just want to make an ignorant political statement, do you really think this has to do with mexicans, or should I say hispanics, mexican americans what would you like maybe a lazy Itailian, or african or jew, or maybe this is about scripture not about a mexican.
Maybe a Christian can make a Scriptural point without possibly offending a sincere Mexican Christian who’s willing to listen if it were not for the superfluous inclusion of a worn-out stereotype. Believe me, I’ve seen waaaay too much of this kind of talk that turns off people, even unbelievers, who are willing to listen. Our language sometimes repels them and I’m merely asking people to be more sensitive.
I think Samuel has a worthwhile point that we should consider.
I noticed the blog now says “Martian” so I think somebody else agreed.
I didnt have a problem with “lazy mexican” but martian works a lot better.
Travis,
I didn’t either, but I can see how somebody might get the wrong perception.
Thanks brothers. I’m confident that if you guys ever see me doing or writing something that possibly needs correcting or tempering you’ll let me know.
Denise,
Do you hold to Solo Scriptura or Sola Scriptura?
So now we’re calling Mexicans martians?
Well…martians, aliens…what’s the difference? I’m used to it….
God loves all people, he just doesn’t love all people equally. He loved Hitler; He gave him life, health, food, companionship, etc., but I don’t think (I’m not his judge) He gave him eternal life. “God sends His rain on the just & on the unjust.”
The Lord says, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father… he cannot be my disciple” Lk 14:26. This verse means that we must prefer Christ over our mother, father & even our own life. In other words: in comparison to our love for Christ, we hate all else.
The verse Dr. Bob used means that God preferred Jacob over Esau as the heir of the covenant & perhaps regarding salvation too.
This is a helpful saying:
God loves all people (the non-elect) in some ways, and loves some people (the elect) in all ways!
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The Three Rules of Biblical Interpretation:
1) Context (verse, chapter, book)
2) Context (testament)
3) Context (bible)
Sam, don’t take the Mexican thing so serious. It’s not about race anyway….it’s about grace! In the end, whether Mexican, Black, Red, or White, we are all pilgrims in a foreign land!