Comments on: Open Letter Addressing A Present Situation….. http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/ Biblical Christianity, Reformed Theology, Reformed Apologetics Fri, 03 Sep 2010 05:06:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Hal Kitzmiller http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-98292 Hal Kitzmiller Tue, 01 Jun 2010 13:33:53 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-98292 Sir Aaron: What a strange comment. Where do you come off telling me what my motives are? Do you have access to my private desires? And no, I was obviously not attempting to stir up dissension. All I did was point out a troubling inconsistency in Mario's letter. Do you have an actual argument against what I've said or are you going to stick to your "appeal to motive" line of reasoning? Mario: I merely asked because you seemed to say two conflicting things. What I am seeking is clarity and consistency and nothing more. On the one hand you state that you do not know why the controversies erupted (because you were not there, etc.). And, on the other hand, you said that you've sinned in parroting Morey's condemnations. If Morey's condemnations were sinful to parrot, then it is because they were false (i.e., sinful) to begin with. If this is so, then those who spoke out against Morey were right. Because of this, you actually *do* in fact know why the church splits occurred. Sir Aaron:

What a strange comment. Where do you come off telling me what my motives are? Do you have access to my private desires?

And no, I was obviously not attempting to stir up dissension. All I did was point out a troubling inconsistency in Mario’s letter. Do you have an actual argument against what I’ve said or are you going to stick to your “appeal to motive” line of reasoning?

Mario:

I merely asked because you seemed to say two conflicting things. What I am seeking is clarity and consistency and nothing more.

On the one hand you state that you do not know why the controversies erupted (because you were not there, etc.). And, on the other hand, you said that you’ve sinned in parroting Morey’s condemnations. If Morey’s condemnations were sinful to parrot, then it is because they were false (i.e., sinful) to begin with. If this is so, then those who spoke out against Morey were right. Because of this, you actually *do* in fact know why the church splits occurred.

]]> By: Sir Aaron http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-95519 Sir Aaron Mon, 24 May 2010 14:50:49 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-95519 Mario: I'm ecstatic to hear it. Hal: Our brothers in Christ have reconciled. Peace ensues. But now you persist in trying to use the reconciliation as a way to stir up dissension. Fortunately, Mario wisely deflected your post. Mario:

I’m ecstatic to hear it.

Hal:

Our brothers in Christ have reconciled. Peace ensues. But now you persist in trying to use the reconciliation as a way to stir up dissension. Fortunately, Mario wisely deflected your post.

]]> By: Mario Herrera http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-94560 Mario Herrera Fri, 21 May 2010 21:45:25 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-94560 Sir Aaron, my brother, I can say that Clark was gracious in our reconciliaton. He gave me a call. Those issues are behind us! We have been blessed to be a part of Grace Church in Laguna Niguel! Sir Aaron, my brother, I can say that Clark was gracious in our reconciliaton. He gave me a call. Those issues are behind us! We have been blessed to be a part of Grace Church in Laguna Niguel!

]]> By: Mario Herrera http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-94556 Mario Herrera Fri, 21 May 2010 21:41:49 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-94556 Hal, What are you seeking with your comment? Reconcialition has taken place by the grace of God in our situation, and we press on to glorify God in this life until the Lord returns. May the grace of the Lord be with you. Hal,

What are you seeking with your comment?

Reconcialition has taken place by the grace of God in our situation, and we press on to glorify God in this life until the Lord returns.

May the grace of the Lord be with you.

]]> By: Hal Kitzmiller http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-94525 Hal Kitzmiller Fri, 21 May 2010 20:01:04 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-94525 Mario: As you said, Morey (falsely) labeled those who left his "church" as apostates and heretics. You're now saying your support of that conclusion was false (i.e., Clark, Mark, et al. are not actually heretics/apostates) and sinful (i.e., you sinned by parroting Morey's false/sinful assertions). In other words, your parroting of Morey was wrong *because* the statements themselves were slanderous. Therefore, Morey was acting sinfully in proclaiming those falsehoods - correct? Based on your retraction, I take it you're now in agreement with those who left. I.e., that Morey was a pastor caught in known sin which he refused to repent of. So, this statement is actually false: "As to the details and reasons why the splits happen, the Lord is the ultimate judge of those circumstances. I was not there to hear what happened with the parties involved." Mario:

As you said, Morey (falsely) labeled those who left his “church” as apostates and heretics. You’re now saying your support of that conclusion was false (i.e., Clark, Mark, et al. are not actually heretics/apostates) and sinful (i.e., you sinned by parroting Morey’s false/sinful assertions). In other words, your parroting of Morey was wrong *because* the statements themselves were slanderous. Therefore, Morey was acting sinfully in proclaiming those falsehoods – correct?

Based on your retraction, I take it you’re now in agreement with those who left. I.e., that Morey was a pastor caught in known sin which he refused to repent of.

So, this statement is actually false: “As to the details and reasons why the splits happen, the Lord is the ultimate judge of those circumstances. I was not there to hear what happened with the parties involved.”

]]> By: Sir Aaron http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-90933 Sir Aaron Mon, 10 May 2010 21:11:09 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-90933 As an outsider looking in, I was disturbed greatly by the split and by the subsequent behaviour of many of the parties. I'm happy to hear that there is a possibility of reconciliation and fellowship (you did not mention if they accepted your apology). As an outsider looking in, I was disturbed greatly by the split and by the subsequent behaviour of many of the parties. I’m happy to hear that there is a possibility of reconciliation and fellowship (you did not mention if they accepted your apology).

]]> By: Cindy Ortiz http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-80175 Cindy Ortiz Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:31:21 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-80175 Dear Mario, I am very proud of you, Clark and Mike. I thank God for the opportunity for reconciliation and repentance. Church splits are very painful, just like a divorce. Your heart is torn in two. The body of a church is one body. Your heart is wrenched when people you love and fellowship with are hurt, removed or leave especially in anger. What an awesome God we serve that would put you guys together again and bring peace. All three of you were willing vessels for Him. In the end, what counts is how we serve Him. We do our best to glorify His kingdom and walk in integrity. We pray heartily for His strength and ask Him to help us remember that the end (that we are working toward), never justifies the means. I am seeing so many good things that are coming from the workings of our Sovereign Lord. I have shed many a tear and many prayers over the years for those that were hurt and are still hurting. This was good news! "When to the sessions of sweet silent thought, I summon up remembrance of things past, I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought, and with old woes new wail my dear time's waste." I so love Shakespeare, just have to read his wisdom with Spurgeon at hand to fill in the Sovereignty. My love to you and Jen, Grace and Peace, Cindy Dear Mario,
I am very proud of you, Clark and Mike. I thank God for the opportunity for reconciliation and repentance. Church splits are very painful, just like a divorce. Your heart is torn in two. The body of a church is one body. Your heart is wrenched when people you love and fellowship with are hurt, removed or leave especially in anger. What an awesome God we serve that would put you guys together again and bring peace. All three of you were willing vessels for Him. In the end, what counts is how we serve Him. We do our best to glorify His kingdom and walk in integrity. We pray heartily for His strength and ask Him to help us remember that the end (that we are working toward), never justifies the means. I am seeing so many good things that are coming from the workings of our Sovereign Lord. I have shed many a tear and many prayers over the years for those that were hurt and are still hurting. This was good news!
“When to the sessions of sweet silent thought, I summon up remembrance of things past, I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought, and with old woes new wail my dear time’s waste.” I so love Shakespeare, just have to read his wisdom with Spurgeon at hand to fill in the Sovereignty.
My love to you and Jen,
Grace and Peace,
Cindy

]]> By: Reformed Mama http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-80030 Reformed Mama Tue, 16 Mar 2010 03:34:55 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-80030 I'll buy you a beer..we have much to discuss!! My husband will be there too of course :) God's grace my brother. I’ll buy you a beer..we have much to discuss!! My husband will be there too of course :) God’s grace my brother.

]]> By: Mario Herrera http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-80009 Mario Herrera Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:35:48 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-80009 Frank, The Lord is faithful. I do thank God for having gone through the experience. So often we believe that if we are in Christ, we'll experience nothing but bliss, however, there are hardships that try us. We will suffer as believers in many respects. In the end, we will all give an account to the Lord according to Hebrews 4:12-13. While we remain here, we must press on together contending earnestly for the faith to the glory of God! Grace and peace to the glory of God! Fusion, you still owe me a beer! Frank,

The Lord is faithful. I do thank God for having gone through the experience. So often we believe that if we are in Christ, we’ll experience nothing but bliss, however, there are hardships that try us. We will suffer as believers in many respects. In the end, we will all give an account to the Lord according to Hebrews 4:12-13.

While we remain here, we must press on together contending earnestly for the faith to the glory of God!

Grace and peace to the glory of God!

Fusion, you still owe me a beer!

]]> By: Frank http://biblicalthought.com/blog/open-letter-addressing-a-present-situation/#comment-80001 Frank Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:55:39 +0000 http://biblicalthought.com/blog/?p=1111#comment-80001 Mario, thanks for your post. Yes, church splits are painful, and I hope never to experience another one. Your statements show that you desire both reconciliation and righteousness. That's commendable. Mario, thanks for your post. Yes, church splits are painful, and I hope never to experience another one. Your statements show that you desire both reconciliation and righteousness. That’s commendable.

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