Sep 9, 2008
Is Anyone Sad About Barack Obama Losing?
I may regret this (opening up a political can of worms), and I don’t even have a category to post this under. But we are in the heat of a Presidential race for control of this country! I was amazed (and still am) at how John McCain pulled the Sarah Palin rabbit out of the hat at the right time - and it seems to be working! McCain/Palin is gaining ground, restoring Conservative confidence and excitement, and winning over many Independents… Anyhow, go ahead and sound off…
67 Comments, Comment or Ping
me
u should leave this alone for 2 months and ask if anyone is sad he lost.
Sep 9th, 2008
Travis
Ive been wanting to talk about this, because it is sad who call themselfs Christians, now, I cant determine their salvation, but I know about the organizations that each candidate belongs to.
Palin= Pentacostal/Non Denominational
McCain=Episcopalian
Obama=United Cult of Christ
Biden=Catholic
Is this going to be another Bush in the sense that everyone believes they are Christians because they say they are
.
And another thing, how do you vote when you disagree with both parties, on some issues?
As far as Palin is concerned, I have a down Syndrome Son and there is no way she can provide the therapy he needs, so either he is going to suffer or the the Dad is going to have to step up and do the countless hours of therapy. And I think her daughter gettin pregnant is not a well managed house, she cant even take care of her family how about a Country? But they are he most qualified for the position and I pray they will make good decisions.
After saying all this, I say GO NAVY and GO McCain/Palin
Sep 9th, 2008
Fusion!
Good to be on here. Love the new faith defenders site too. My two cents? You will always be voting for the lesser of two evils. But as proverbs says: the heart of the king is in the hands of the Lord. So I say vote. We have many issues, whether it’s gay marriage, taxes, home schooling, local races etc.. I say vote. It’s a right God has allowed us to have. And if you really hate both parties vote anyway. And work within that party to make a difference. Or, you can always vote for a 3rd party candidate and give them a little more credence. There are a few Christian third parties out there. I think the American Constitutional party comes to mind. More so, Go out and support the one you think will do best. And yeah, Go McCain/Palin! Though really, she seems to be headed to the White House next. Could she be our President in the next 4 or 8 years? Keep praying over the whole situation.
This is Frank Fusion and I approve this message.
Sep 9th, 2008
Mario
like the can of worms. It does seem that the Republicans are gaining ground! I like the talk about servant leadership! We’ll see what happens, it will be an exciting race, always remembering Psalm 2 and the fact that God is on His throne!
Sep 9th, 2008
Glen
I can’t say that I was excited about McCain, but Palin sure has my attention. I do agree with Travis about the household, but there are many that would disqualify and we’re not looking for someone to run a Church.
I most definitely agree with Fusion. We do need to vote. We will never agree 100% with any candidate (unless you are the candidate) or a party, however, we do have clear Scriptural guidelines that we can use to choose a party/candidate to vote along/for. What are their stance on abortion, Thou shalt not murder; welfare, If you don’t work you don’t eat; counsel, In the words of the wise there is great wisdom; etc… Look at the Bible and then look at the candidates stances through that lens and then vote.
Travis… I say GO AIR FORCE!
Sep 9th, 2008
Jennifer
I am sad that Obama is losing because Hillary Clinton cautioned the DP about electing this unelectable man whom the republicans wanted from the gate because they knew that Hillary could hold her on. I was with the democratic party until they accepted the sexism against Hillary and refused to face reality that Barack Obama was led to his own destuction by the republicans pretending to want Hillary as the nominee. I am not angry anymore just sad that this is all for nothing. Obama is a disappointment and disgrace to say hateful things about Sarah being a pig with lipstick and suggesting that old Mccain is like a dead old fish wrapped up in a paper with the words change on it but no matter what it is still old and rotten and stinks. Mccain/Palin ‘08
Sep 9th, 2008
Becky
Not too much a can of worms talking about a losing democrat on a Christian page. Now if you say you are a sad or mourn for Hilary…but yeah i haven’t noticed yet that he is losing, but that is good news because i only see racism and communism coming under Obama. He captures thousands by speech, but i can think of a little German man who did the same thing…
McCain is practically a democrat and i don’t see anything wrong with Sarah Palin as far as issues and our country is concerned. Yeah her daughter is pregnant but (1)kids can turn out any way no matter how their parents are. look at Franky Schaffer. (2)a lack of care for her house doesn’t show a potential lack of care for her country, but clearly that she puts her country ahead of her family, just like she does with her state. I am not saying that is right, but you can’t change anybody, so trying to keep her out of office isn’t going to force her to spend more time with her kids.
I am impressed with how she challenges corruption and think this is the best with what we have to work with. Of course we are always voting for the lesser of two evils. She may be what we need right now though. Yeah, i see her becoming president in eight or less years. No i am not sad Obama is losing. I like my freedom.
Sep 10th, 2008
Linda
Travis,
You asked “I think her daughter gettin pregnant is not a well managed house, she cant even take care of her family how about a Country?”. I’ll have to say, as a mom and a daughter, I find this a little offensive. While I don’t know Palin personally, as a mom I am sure she did her best to instill moral values into her child, like I do with mine, and my mom did with me. Thing is, there comes a time when some decisions are made by our children that we are not there for. We are left only hope and pray they make the right ones. We can’t afterall be there 24 hours a day. I am sure Miss Palin is not the first “christian” (I’m assuming) teenager to engage in pre-marital sex. Growing up , in my family we were taught right from wrong, and we knew that sex was for marriage. Still my sister got herself preganant at 17. HER decision, not my parents…and they ran a very loving, yet tight household.
Do you truly believe all the mistakes you made as a teen were because your household was not well managed, and because your mom didn’t take cae of your family?
As for Barack “I’m a devout christian..but I believe a woman has the right to kill her unborn child” Obama…I am anything but sad that his poplularity is dropping. Go McCain!
Sep 10th, 2008
Travis
Glen,
I do agree they are not going to be Elders of a Church, it is just a question I want to pose, is she able to run her household, or a government, or did her daughter sin and is repentive, and was disciplined by her parents.
Linda,
I should have worded more as a question than a statement, I do think it says something about the household, but NO you can’t just blame her parents for it, but thin about the implications of what her daughter was doing, did her parents know who she was dating? Did her parents get involved in her life(not just in the PTA). But, at the same time, I do know teenagers have to make their minds up, with they follow Christ and serve Him or will they not. Or maybe it was a onetime mistake on the behalf of the her daughter to have sex outside of marriage, and she is repentant of it now, I do not know. It just seems it goes deeper in the issue of Mrs. Palin than people want to deal with. I agree with her stand on a lot of Issues and that is why I will vote McCain Palin.
As far as the Lipstick comment I stand with Obama on that, he was talking in context of policy(though he is wrong) but it definitely was perceived by the crowd as a shot at Palin
Sep 10th, 2008
Travis
Fusion,
I agree completly, God is on his Throne and will direct his leaders, Im thankful that we are aloud to vote for them and not dictated who the next King or Queen will be reguardless of morals and beliefs.
Your statment is for people to be Leaders and not followers, I am encouraged by your comments, though I may not be able to do all things I sure can do somethings, God has given me specific talents and gifts and a place in which I can use them.
ALL CHRISTIANS need to vote!
ALL CHRISTIANS need to be part of the New Reformation, and Politics is an avenue to be a part of it! Be faithful to the Lord and worship Him in ALL your life.
Sep 10th, 2008
Fusion!
Thanks you guys. I have to agree with the mother who said we shouldn’t not be quick to judge Palin’s parenting. I have godly family who have done their best only to see their kids make some very horrible decisions (one of them died in a car crash because he was drunk). Something to think about. And as I noted ther are many third parties out there. Some include
The Constitution party that recognizes Jesus as Lord and Savior.
The Pot Party-Guess what they’re for.
The Loser, I mean, Libertarian Party
The Boston Tea party
Prohibition Party
American Nazi party
You can read all about them here
http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm
And if I can stray from the topic, anyone seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuTROz5Pow
Funny and makes you think.
Sep 10th, 2008
Denise
Weellll….LOL I’m not behind McCain/Palin for a number of reasons, not the least of which is, Palin’s a feminist and McCain leans liberal.
I come from the stand point of:
Fear God
Vote Biblically
Don’t Compromise
I do not fear the “opposition”, but rather I fear God and know I am accountable to HIM.
I must make my decisions based on biblical principles and not violate them.
I cannot compromise out of pragmatics or fear of man.
I’ve discussed the feminist issue at my own blog. I find that most professing Christians are pragmatic AND feministic in their thinking which violates Scripture.
Sep 10th, 2008
Reformed Mama
Ouch…Denise…it hurts to disagree with you my sister…at the risk of being viewed as a one issue voter…babies are at risk here! I’m no McCain lover but he and Palin are pro-baby as is our Messiah…so I will support them for that reason and a couple of others.
Sep 10th, 2008
Derek
Palin is an interesting lady. However, she has not motivated me enough to vote for McStain. I worked too long and too hard fighting his amnesty bill for illegal aliens last summer to give him my vote just because he picked a “Christian” (I put the term in quotes because I do not know her walk, and the last “Christian” that I voted for, Dubya, isn’t, and I will not get burned again).
That being said, I do respect her pro-life view, and she should be commended for not aborting baby Trig. I enjoyed her speach at the RNC tremendously. I think, that she would be a good VP, and President, should McStain keel over and assume room temperature.
Sep 10th, 2008
Sir Aaron
Yes, so sad. I’m sad about all the taxes I wont be paying when he doesn’t win. Although democrats do usually give better raises. All the ensuing fraud from the bloated entitlement programs he would create might also be beneficial to my job too…
Sep 10th, 2008
Travis
Denise,
Im curious to see how you interpret scripture on this issue of Palin being VP.
What scripture do we “throw out” when we vote, is it murder or is it women? Im definetly not a feminist, but where do you go from here? You have to pick the lesser of the evils, and be faithful with what you have now.
Sep 10th, 2008
Will
We will get the leaders we deserve, and if we get John and Sarah, we know the Lord is extra-merciful. Either way, THE LORD OF HOSTS IS IN CONTROL. Amen.
Sep 10th, 2008
Denise
Travis,
I won’t vote for evil, lesser or more. Evil is evil. I try hard to not be pragmatic but biblical as much as I can as I grow in Christ.
Consider this:
Tit 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4 and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.
Voting for Palin is giving approval to her feminist position (she is a self-proclaimed feminist), helping her to stay away from the home where she is to be.
God’s roles for men and women are not cultural. We should help women follow His pattern.
The problem is that many Christians fear the opposition more than fearing God and His Word. That is why they are pragmatic instead of striving to live biblically.
Sep 11th, 2008
Sir Aaron
I agree with some of what Denise says, although I do find some of her other points to be overly legalistic. [I also disagree passionately with Denise on some other points based on her blog, but that is beyond the scope of this particular topic].
I do agree with Denise on this premise. As Christians we ought to vote our conscience with faith in God rather than voting out of fear of our enemies. It was, after all, fear of enemies that first kept the Jews out of the promised land. I do understand that as a practical matter, refusing to vote for McCain could help Obama to get elected. And I understand that a democratically controlled Presidency and Congress would eliminate every gain we have made in the pro-life movement and also open the door to all kinds of wickedness. It certainly is very practical and as Denise says, pragmatic to vote for anything other than Obama. However, we should have faith in God that when we do the right thing that He will be with us (even if times are hard). And even He does not save us from peril, we should not give into evil. Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter. “If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. “But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.” (Dan 3:16-18)
I do disgree with the assertion that voting for Palin is giving approval to her feminist position. Voting for a candidate does not mean you necessarily approve or agree with each and every one of their positions. Otherwise, you’d never vote for anybody.
I have meditated on whether we should insist on Bible believing Christians as Presidents. Certainly, I’d prefer it but whether I should demand it raises complicated questions. What beliefs should this Christian leader adhere to? Must they hold to Calvinistic beliefs? How detailed must I review their doctrinal beliefs? Am I then instituting a theocratic state by such an action? Or is it merely enough to vote for somebody who holds to and promises to implement policies that reflect my most core principles? I can’t say that I have answers to all of these questions and even if I did, I couldn’t really fault others who struggle with making such a decision. If a Christian brother or sister, who has prayerfully considered the matter, decides that voting for a pro-life platform trumps all other considerations then I believe it is wrong to condemn that brother or sister as being un-Biblical or unfaithful to God. We may disagree on the application of certain Biblical principles but in the end, it is a matter of Christian freedom.
To Travis, my dear brother: I do agree with you that the state of your family/household does reflect on your character, your leadership, and your priorities. It’s just that it’s hard to draw specific conclusion about what the reflection means. The problem many people have is that they apply a good for every kid approach. My mom stayed home…my Dad came to most of my sporting events. I was even homeschooled for a number of years. And as soon as I got free from the smothering experience, I rebelled in every possible way. Soooo…parenting isn’t a one size fits all. I am also concerned about the ability to raise a family while under the demands of such a position. But I think this is just as much an issue with a man as a woman. When a child is really, really ill…you know who needs to be there? Mom right? No. Both parents. The anti-feminists ran so far they fell off the other side of the ship. Somehow it became acceptable for men to chase their career despite how much time it took from the family. After all, the Mom can take care of things. Sorry, the Dad is just as important as the Mom and needs to spend substantial quality time with the family. We tend not to do this because as Denise says, we are naturally lazy.
OK..lecture over.
Sep 11th, 2008
Travis
Sir,
I want to do what scripture says that is most important to me it is going to take some prayer because I think both canidents are suitable in certain political stances, as far as Palin goes I asked myself and the Lord today about the pregnancy and whether it was the fault of the Parent or the kid or both,(the obvious answer is both) and I have not reached any conclusions, so, still in the meditation part, I thought about my little girl and raising here not to be “smothered” but teach her, and what this parenting thing looks like(I would have to repent if my daughter did that, and also direct he to repent). As I look at Frances Schaeffer and Franky Schaeffer it breaks my heart. I wonder if I have been misunderstanding the scripture “raise a child in the way he should go….”
I know I cant not vote, because you are right SIR I would never attend church or vote in any elections because I never fully agree with anyone, sometimes not even myself. So I will continue to meditate on what the wise decision would be for president.
Sep 11th, 2008
Fusion!
Well said Sir,
I agree that just cause a Christian parent tries their best it can still lead to nowhere. I’ve seen it first hand. Though I am forever indebted to my godly mother for her example and prayers for me and my siblings. More so, I hope we do vote. I said before that proverbs tells us that the heart of the kind is in the hands of the Lord. It also says that we are to be salt and light. To not vote at all is ignoring our God given duty. The issues are high this time around. Although I have to also say that we can’t wait for Washington to come and save us. I have my (many) disagreements with Denise, but I agree: we’re lazy. We have to stop thinking some politician is going to make it all good (as important as good politicians are to have) we have to get involved at the local lever. I appreciate Reformed Momma’s kid having petitions to protect marriage in California. Ya’ll should get involved as best as you can. It’s more than once a year in December, or every 4 years. It’s a year in and year out type of thing. Or to put it another way: when do we take a break from being salt and light in any arena (like politics)? Seriously, if you don’t like a candidate, join a third party, start your own, or work for change in the one you’re in.
As for the motherhood issue, who says she can’t be a good VP and a good mother at the same time? Civil Service is a legitimate calling.
Sep 11th, 2008
Sir Aaron
Travis:
The verse you are thinking of is: Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it. (Pro 22:6)
The verse is more of a warning then a promise. Children are born sinners. If you train a child after his own wishes, you should not expect him to change this pattern after he matures (BBC commentary).
As for the Schaeffers, do you know whether Schaeffer was a good father? We assume that since he was a good Christian and good minister that he was also a great father. That isn’t to say he wasn’t, but I don’t have any evidence in either direction so to hold him up as an example would be wrong. All of us parents here know that parenting is hard work and that mistakes are easy to make. One thing may work for one parent and one child but not for another. That is why I am loathe to be dogmatic about parenting practices unless I see clear and convincing evidence of Biblical wrongdoing (for example, failing to discipline a child). I know many Christian parents who are extremely dogmatic on how parents ought to educate their children, etc and I think it’s wrong. We should quote Scripture where it clearly speaks and remain silent where it remains silent. I don’t like to stretch the use of Bible verses in order to support my doctrinal positions. I didn’t like it when I was in a seeker church and I don’t like it now that I’m Reformed.
Sep 12th, 2008
Fusion!
Sir,
You’re right. In the previous issue of Books and Culture Os Guiness wrote about Francis and Franky. He was friends with them booth. No one is perfect and neither was Schaeffer. It does not however take away responsbility away from Franky.
Sep 12th, 2008
Travis
I appreciate both of your wise comments, I pray for my children daily, it is heart breaking to think my children could not walk with the Lord, thats not going to stop me from teaching the ways of the Lord.
Where scripture is silent there is freedom, but we dont go past where it speaks. Thank the Lord hears prayers, and that we have the spirit in us.
Sep 12th, 2008
Sir Aaron
I may be offline for a while soon. Hurricane a comin!
Sep 12th, 2008
Fusion!
So did anyone visit my mariah carey is a Calvinist youtube link I put on here? It’s very funny. And I’ll be praying for you Sir.
Sep 12th, 2008
jimbot
I’m not sad at all… in fact…I’m doing the happy dance…
Sep 12th, 2008
Glen
Fusion,
That video was hilarious!!! I especially like the tongues line.
Sep 12th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Fusion, I saw it, and chuckled…
I would cast my vote for McCain/Palin because in the grand scheme of things their leadership will continue to promote the conservative values which are ultimately biblical values (if you trace back to the origin).
Since our society is a contaminated society (sin, Bible, religion, family, foreign culture, etc.), the leadership that we vote (as Christians) for should exploit the contamination that suits us best and supports our cause.
It is obvious that out of all the pollutants in our society, the Bible is the one that we should exploit. These candidates appear to have the largest quantitative tally of checkmarks in our column, therefore we should vote for them.
It is a known fact that the race will be close, and it is also probably going to have the highest total number of votes. Therefore by not casting a vote at all, you’re still casting a vote.
If we step back from analyzing the personal character and convictions of these candidates and instead consider which of the two nominees will be better for the country in general, I don’t see how one cannot come away with McCain/Palin - regardless of what they actually believe.
If they win, they are most likely the team that will do the greatest good. It’s like the old pros and cons checklist, they come out on top…period.
Both of them (JM/SP) may not even be Christians, but both were raised in homes and society that were contaminated by God’s Special Revelation - the Scriptures. For a long time, biblical principles were the boundary markers for outward morality and therefore children, youth, and adults were expected to externally conform to the biblical principles foundational to old America.
Obviously there has been sort of a shift in recent times, but these candies seem to be more geared toward conserving those principles that have their origin in the Bible. This is not across the board, for sure.
On the other hand, BO/JB seem more likely to abandon those principles in light of larger, more important agendas that they are committed to…
P.S. I ripped off the contaminated/polluted concept from Dr. Morey…
Sep 12th, 2008
Carol
I saw a video of a talk that Gov. Palin gave at her old church in Wasilla. It was not for political reasons. It was given at a graduation ceremony. She did not prepare a speech, just spoke from her heart.
http://www.netbroadcasting.tv/sarah_palin.html
I heard a lot of positive things about Gov. Palin first hand from a Christian who was a neighbor for years to the Palins when they lived in Wasilla. She is voting for McCain because Gov. Palin is on the ticket.
I have not heard anything about Gov. Palin professing to be a feminist. I think she is using the gifts God gave her. From all I see and hear she has a close relationship with her husband and each of her kids.
Sep 14th, 2008
Frank
No, I’m not sad by Obama’s demise. But I wouldn’t abort his campaign, just leave it to die.
As I age (and I’m old enough to remember when the GOP was actually conservative), I grow more cynical about politics. So now that the GOP has made an issue of abortion, I recall how it placed the same issue on the back burner for the previous two or three presidential elections.
Why the change? Obama has picked a Catholic running mate, Joe Biden, in order to reach out to Catholics in key battleground states. The GOP, which otherwise would not risk offending its numerous pro-choice members, feels compelled to compete for those Catholics by reminding them of Biden’s pro-choice voting record, his exclusion from the Eucharist, and the RCC’s opposition to abortion. Once the election is over, the GOP will probably return abortion to the back burner, unless Obama wins; after all, it’s the party out of power that clamors for reform.
Currently neither the GOP nor the Democratic Party is discussing immigration reform, our failing currency, the banking crisis, or the national debt, because there seems to be no political advantage to tackling these issues; besides, both parties are heavily influenced by the Council on Foreign Relations, which aims to weaken our nation.
Because biblical principles should guide our voting decisions, I’m inclined to vote for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party. Granted, he has no chance of winning. But for me, it’s less important to vote for a potential winner than it is to please God.
Sep 15th, 2008
Reformed Mama
Frank~
With all due respect…let’s stay together on this McCain/Palin ticket!
Whatever the motive…Pro-Baby is back “in fashion” and our Lord and Messiah is Pro-Baby! A vote for a third party is a vote for Obamination really.
Swallow hard like the rest of us…judges are on the line…judges who make decisions about baby murder!
God’s grace…
Sep 16th, 2008
Reformed Rich
What better time for the antichrist to show up on the scene. Gay marrage, abortion, banking crisis, failing currency, national debt and so on. Psalm 2:1 Why are the nations in an uproar, And the peoples devising a vain thing? v.2 The kings of the earth take their stand, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and aginst His Anointed, saying, v3 “Let us tear their fetters apart And cast away their cords from us!” Read the rest of Psalm 2 and sit back and enjoy our Lords mighty hand at work! Thank God that He is in control. Proverbs 21:1
Sep 18th, 2008
Denise
“But for me, it’s less important to vote for a potential winner than it is to please God.” ~Frank
Exactly my view Frank. I can’t be pragmatic on this. I really do believe that we should:
1. Fear God (not man/ the opposition)
2. Vot biblically (not pragmatically)
3. Don’t compromise (stand on Truth no matter the consequence)
Voting for evil is still voting for evil.
Just say No to McBama
Check it out; McCain: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=59182
“But what about judges, you ask? Won’t a McCain presidency give Americans a chance to reclaim the Supreme Court in the name of the Constitution and original intent?
The evidence is far from conclusive, given that MCCAIN VOTED to CONFIRM Ruth Bader GINSBURG and Steven BREYER to the Supreme Court. He also, as is his nature, conspired with Democrats in the Senate to BLOCK APPROVAL of Bush’s MOST CONSERVATIVE JUSRISTS.”
McCain also commited adultery on several occassions, leaving his crippled wife who waited for him for 5 years while he was held in a prison camp during the Viet Nam war, and chased after Cindy, his current wife while married.
See the full story: http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-chapter5.html
McCain is merely a RINO of course. This is shown by the DNC pushing him to be on the John Kerry presidential ticket in 2004:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73322
So what difference is there between McCain and Obama? Not a whole lot. He’s not even true pro-life:
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_McCain_Abortion.htm Here we see he supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. “On “Meet the Press,” McCain said he had “come to the conclusion that the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother are legitimate exceptions” to an outright ban on abortions…”
He holds to situation ethics. =(
Just say NO to McBama! =P~~~
Denise
Sep 18th, 2008
Roy Hernandez
Hmmm…that’s very interesting.
Sep 18th, 2008
Frank
“Voting for evil is still voting for evil.” ~Denise
Thanks for your fine post. I hope Reformed Mama will not let herself be boxed into considering only Democratic and Republican candidates.
Maybe she will read what the Constitution Party Platform says about these issues:
Sanctity of Life: http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php#Sancity%20of%20Life
Money and Banking: http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php#Money%20and%20Banking
The money issue is important to God, who abhors differing weights and dishonest scales (Proverbs 20:23). Thus, He must hate for our leaders to guarantee cost-of-living raises to veterans injured in battle and then lie about inflation when time comes to adjust VA Disability benefits. Sadly, Democrats and Republicans have done that from the Clinton administration on.
http://www.shadowstats.com/
I hope Reformed Mama will realize that voting for good is still voting for good. A vote for Chuck Baldwin is not a vote for Obama.
Sep 18th, 2008
Reformed Mama
To Frank…I quote Stephen Macasil (above):
“If we step back from analyzing the personal character and convictions of these candidates and instead consider which of the two nominees will be better for the country in general, I don’t see how one cannot come away with McCain/Palin - regardless of what they actually believe.
If they win, they are most likely the team that will do the greatest good. It’s like the old pros and cons checklist, they come out on top…period.
Both of them (JM/SP) may not even be Christians, but both were raised in homes and society that were contaminated by God’s Special Revelation - the Scriptures. For a long time, biblical principles were the boundary markers for outward morality and therefore children, youth, and adults were expected to externally conform to the biblical principles foundational to old America.
Obviously there has been sort of a shift in recent times, but these candies seem to be more geared toward conserving those principles that have their origin in the Bible. This is not across the board, for sure.”
It cannot be said much better than that! No, I will not vote for a third party though I may be more personally closely alligned with one. If you are waiting to vote for someone who is not “evil” than you will be waiting for eternity as there is only one who is perfect, our Lord…and we are “desperately wicked”!
A vote for a third party is most certainly a vote for Obama as it will be one less for McCain/Palin. Remember Ross Perot?
I have followed McCain’s career and am fully aware of his shortcomings! But…baby murder is baby murder…why do anything that may help Obama secure this win in any way? Obama will certainly give us more liberal judges…McCain prayerfully will not do so. Have you seen what goes during an abortion? That is the face of EVIL!!
Sep 19th, 2008
Frank
Reformed Mama,
I don’t see how our Lord is glorified when we pretend that there are no nominees besides McCain-Palin and Obama-Biden, nor do I see how my vote for Chuck Baldwin amounts to one less vote for McCain (if anything, it amounts to one less vote for Libertarian nominee Bob Barr).
I’d love to see multiple parties instead of our two-party system, for having extra parties would make it harder for the Council on Foreign Relations to control U.S. politics.
As for baby murder, which I oppose, I note that the Republicans took no meaningful steps to eliminate it while they controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress. Were they to regain all that power, I doubt that they’d eliminate abortion, because they don’t want to offend their party’s pro-choice members.
The apostle Paul wrote that “whatever is not from faith is sin” (Romans 14:23). I can’t vote in good faith for a party that pretends to be pro-life, lies about inflation and the cost of living, desires to maintain our corrupt system of fiat currency, and drags its feet when it comes to securing our border.
Sep 20th, 2008
OverCommiTad2theWord
Frank
I don’t see how our Lord is glorified when we are too heavenly minded to be of any earthly good. The simple fact is that the only nominees that will be elected are McPalin or Obiden. The election for us is more a question of who would hurt the country more, who will oppose God more between the nominees that have a real possibility of winning.
As far as abortion is concerned, I’m not happy about the Republicans either, but they at least made a step in the right direction by banning partial birth abortion which President Bubba would not go along with. You still have a false comparison between Republicans who will most likely keep abortion policy status quo and Democrats who will move toward abortions for anyone at any time for any reason funded by you and me through the tax code. Roe v. Wade is bad law; therefore the only way it will be overturned is through a Supreme Court decision. Again, between those with a chance of being elected, who do we place our bets on for choosing Justices more in line with our respect of the Constitution? I would rather it not be a gamble, but sadly it is. I think it’s a pretty sure bet that a McPalin pick would be much better than an Obiden pick, agreed?
I’d love to have another choice but we don’t and I don’t want to be in the group of good men (and women) who do nothing while evil (Obiden) triumphs. There is no perfect candidate. Hebrews 13:16 “Do not neglect to do good and to be generous, for God is pleased with such sacrifices.”
Sep 21st, 2008
Sir Aaron
Frank:
So voting for a fool who claims to stand on Christian principles who has no chance of winning is somehow better than voting for a Republican nominee?
The Constitution Party has several platform statements that are foolish, destructive, and totally ignorant of American history. It is the Constitution Party’s beliefs that led to where we are now both politically and economically.
So tell me again, how voting for a fool is “voting for good?”
P.S. If you desire, I’d be happy to delineate the ignorance and folly of the Constitution Party’s platform.
Sep 21st, 2008
Frank
OverCommiTad2theWord,
The main advantage to McCain is that he probably won’t use tax-payers’ money to fund abortions. I have no assurance that he won’t nominate another Sandra Day O’Connor to the Supreme Court or that his economic policies will be better than Obama’s. (Obama, after all, has the backing of financially savvy Warren Buffett and Oprah Winfrey.)
Both Republican and Democratic parties favor corrupt practices such as continuing with fiat currency and the Federal Reserve Bank and lying about inflation and the cost of living. How does my concern about these practices amount to being too heavenly minded to be any earthly good?
Sep 22nd, 2008
Frank
Sir Aaron,
Since whoever says “Thou fool!” to a brother puts himself at risk of hell fire (Matthew 5:22), I’d be careful about using the word “fool” as you’ve done. Still, I’d be interested to hear your criticisms of the Constitution Party’s platform, especially if you mention instances where the platform is unbiblical.
Sep 22nd, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Frank,
I just don’t see how you can legitimize “throwing away” a vote like you’re saying you’re going to do. It is a fact to say that either Obiden or McPalin will be our next President. It is therefore a fact to declare that Baldwin will not be our next President. If only Obiden or McPalin are possible options to pick from, it is an irresponsible abuse of American freedom to cast a vote for an impossibility. Your vote will ultimately be meaningless. This becomes a moral issue in the realms of stewardship, wisdom, responsibility, and maturity - all which imply your accountability before God.
Are we not back to the starting point where you said you desired to please God? How can you say a vote for Baldwin pleases God? There is no reality available to you where your vote for CB has ontological, intrinsic value. Since your vote is for an impossible “candidate,” it is rendered meaningless…
Sep 22nd, 2008
Frank
Brother Stephen,
To you, throwing away a vote is voting for someone with little or no chance of becoming our next president. To me, throwing away a vote is not using it to support the candidates or parties that best please God. If God abhors false balances but delights in just weights (Proverbs 11:1), He opposes the rip-offs rife in our system of fiat currency, bogus cost-of-living calculations, and Wall Street looting. I think He delights in every vote against that fraudulent system.
Have you noticed how McCain and Palin are falling behind Obama and Biden? Voters are catching on to the Republican-Paulsen role in the goings-on, and Democrats such as Barney Frank are actually scoring points by suggesting that CEOs of embattled institutions forfeit some of their pay and bonuses (that’s a welcome change from Bush-Paulson-Bernanke, who’ve said little or nothing of comfort to working and middle class voters).
Political strategist Dick Morris says the financial crisis now has the McCain-Palin ticket in trouble with swing states and the electoral college:
http://w3.newsmax.com/a/morrismap/?s=al&promo_code=6B10-1
He says McCain-Palin must somehow turn the crisis to their advantage. (James Carville, of course, is repeating his old slogan “It’s the economy, stupid.”)
David Frazier of the ETF Strategist, a publication I can’t quote from, analyzed the electoral vote in his September newsletter and projected that McCain-Palin will at best accumulate 269 electoral votes, one shy of the 270 needed, in which case the House of Representatives will elect the Obama-Biden ticket.
Ben Stein has spoken out against the Wall Street looting and thus drawn attention to Henry Paulson’s advance knowledge of today’s financial crisis:
http://moneynews.newsmax.com/streettalk/ben_stein_wall_street/2008/09/22/133078.html?s=al&promo_code=6AFA-1
With the Bush-Paulson-Bernanke connection, Republicans are finding it increasingly difficult not to look tainted. For me, it’s important that Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party aren’t tainted.
A vote for Chuck Baldwin is truly a vote for righteousness and reform. I’m pleased to learn that Ron Paul, whom I supported during the presidential primaries, has endorsed Chuck Baldwin.
Sep 22nd, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Frank,
I find it admirable that you seek to please God. I am not opposed to your overarching motives as they appear on the surface. But your position on this can be compared to a person placing a large bet on the Dodgers to win the World Series - when only the Red Sox and Padres are playing.
It’s one thing to bet on the Dodgers during the regular season and the playoffs. But if they become eliminated from contention at one point, not even the greatest of Dodgers fans can will a situation where their bet retains the value and meaning it once had while their favorite team was still a legitimate contender.
Sep 23rd, 2008
OverCommiTAD2TheWord
Frank ~
If the baseball analogy doesn’t get through to you, let’s jump in a timemachine to after the election, we’re in the future and enough voters have either not voted because no one was worthy or voted for Chuck because he wasn’t “tainted” and Obiden won the election.
Your vote was not there to offset Oprah’s vote and Obiden is still talking about how no woman needs to be “punished” with a baby, but now he has power to make abortions more acceptable, funded and frequent, legislatively and judicially.
You know his appointments to the Supreme court would be horrific (he said he would not have nominated Judge Scalia or Judge
Thomas). He’s also talking about how he can solve everyone’s problems… all he needs is more of your money, and by more I mean he may let you keep a little. Also, he’ll be talking one on one with terrorist leaders to see how he can get them to be more comfortable with America.
What of Mr. Baldwin? He won’t bring “righteousness and reform” to the government because he is still a pastor in Florida since only 250,001 voters (out of maybe 120,000,000) chose him on election day.
I’m not saying you like Obiden, I’m sure you don’t. I’m sure I would agree with Chuck on more issues than McPalin. It’s possible I’d even vote for him if he had a chance to win, but we both know he doesn’t. As far as his chances to be the President goes Chuck doesn’t exist.
I know you “get it” that either McPalin wins or Obiden wins, a vote for one is a vote against the other. So join us in the only righteous vote against Obiden (and for McPalin).
“Too heavenly minded” refers to your piety that has no affect in the real world, but makes you feel “clean”. And of course there is no guarantee who will be elected to the Supreme court, but surely you know we would get better judges from McPalin than Obiden, yes?
Join us!
Sep 23rd, 2008
Sir Aaron
Frank:
While I appreciate your warning, I do think you use Matthew 5:22 out of context. It means to call your brother a fool without cause. And our Lord certainly use the word, “fool” on many occasions.
Now that I know you voted for Ron Paul, I have confirmed some suspicions in my own mind. Even here amongst staunch conservatives in Texas, Paul is considered to be on the fringe.
I can’t go into great detail now, but I will when I get a chance (I’m presently out of the country and have limited internet access). I will tell you that going back to the “gold standard” is financial lunacy. It was precisely this problem that led to the three great depressions of our country. And…and…this wont resolve our balanced budget problem. The founding fathers, of course, were the first to run a deficit and borrow quite liberally. Prior to that, the colonies printed money to cover expenses. This led to some of the increasing restrictions on the colonies because the colonies money became worthless. The party’s position on taxes is equally bad. Excise and tariffs? Doesn’t anybody know the history of taxation in the U.S.? Both are regressive taxes based entirely on consumption. It may protect one industry while crushing another. Additionally, the taxes are always passed onto the customer (just take a look at your gas taxes). Of course, it is the complete failure of these taxes that led the people to want income taxes.
They also make claims about the Patriot Act that simply aren’t true. Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil. This is exactly why we ask for increasing privacy. The only people we protect are evil ones.
I could go on, but I don’t have time. I will be more specific in a couple weeks when I return to the U.S.
Sep 23rd, 2008
Mrs. Watkins
Stephen, Frank, others,
Frank has every right as an American to vote for whomever he wants. Him, Denise, and Paul supporters aren’t doing anything wrong by voting for the underdog. Wasn’t Perot up there in the ‘92 election? I believe in supporting those who you find to be the best fit. In the end, i end up voting for the lesser of two evils so the worst doesn’t gain office. It’s not like McCain and Obama are the only ones running, as in the Baseball analogy. My opinion is to support the little guys throughout the years, but when it comes down to it, cast a vote that really counts. I do not find anyone who does otherwise to be in the wrong or sinning.
Of course, if we’re going for obscurity and dreams, my first choice would be Tony Stark/Jack Bauer then Huckabee/Norris. Then there is always http://www.walken2008.com/index.html
Sep 24th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
It has not been asserted or implied that Frank does not have the right to do as he wishes with his vote. Casting a vote “that really counts,” as you have said you will do, from what I can see, cannot materialize unless one votes either for McPalin or Obiden.
P.S. I accidentally deleted a comment from “Mrs. Watkins.” Please repost it, I meant to “approve” it…
Sep 24th, 2008
Sir Aaron
Mrs. Watkins:
“Frank has every right as an American to vote for whomever he wants. Him, Denise, and Paul supporters aren’t doing anything wrong by voting for the underdog.”
This is exactly the point I’ve tried to make. The matter of this election is a difficult one. Each Christian must evaluate his/her choice according to Scripture and then make a choice according to their own conscience. One Christian believes that being pragmatic is the solution while another prefers to vote for a third party and leave the rest to God. It would be difficult to argue from Scripture a clear principle AGAINST either position, IMO.
However, it is Denise, Frank and others who have accused brothers and sisters here of being unfaithful because they choose to vote for McCain/Palin. According to some posts, voting for McCain/Palin represents voting for evil and complete acceptance of each indivual platform statement. Most of the posts here are in defense against that accusation.
My personal point is that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. You cannot say that voting for McCain/Palin signifies acceptance of their bad platform beliefs without also accepting the bad platform beliefs of the candidate you profess to support. And I am not entirely convinced that voting for an candidate ignorant of fiscal history and political history is better than voting for McCain/Palin.
Sep 24th, 2008
Frank
Stephen,
On Sept. 23, you told me: “I find it admirable that you seek to please God. I am not opposed to your overarching motives as they appear on the surface. But your position on this can be compared to a person placing a large bet on the Dodgers to win the World Series - when only the Red Sox and Padres are playing.”
Analogies break down unless they accurately fit whatever they’re supposed to illustrate. There are a couple of problems with your analogy. While votes affect an election’s outcome, bets don’t affect a baseball game’s outcome, unless players are bought off. While only two teams can play in the World Series, there’s no limit on how many candidates can run for president. With enough electoral votes, any candidate can win although not all the candidates are regarded as “really in contention.”
Sep 25th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
But as we see from the World Series analogy, once the possible options have been reduced far enough down the line, we know that the winner will be one of two.
Sep 25th, 2008
Mrs. Watkins
I don’t remember what I said…i think it was kind of long. There is no way to retrieve it? I’ll try to repeat what i remember.
I wasn’t saying that you said Frank didn’t have the right, but it looked like somewhere in these comments you or someone was saying it was wrong.
A person has to decide which is the most Biblical action. Is it to “Fear God. Vote Biblically. Don’t Compromise” or is it to be practical? They are both valid stances and i think it’s one of those gray areas in life.
Sir Aaron - i admit i read very fast all comments so didn’t catch everything. If they are doing that, then yeah, i agree it is wrong. This is one of those issues where people on either side should fight for their own view if they please, but not put down the other without valid reasons. And then be open for counter to those reasons. Often people make the mistake of assuming everything is black & white. For example, i will most likely be voting for “McPalin,” but i also find it evil (the lesser of two).
I guess it’s a negative or positive thing. Some want to vote positively (voting for whoever most closely matches their views and would be best for the country) and others vote negatively (voting for whoever will keep who they don’t want in office, out).
Presidents are important, but we should pay attention and vote wisely on lower elected officials and props. We should sign petitions and not think that by voting every four years we are properly exercising our American duty as Christians. A president controls things at the top, but so much happens below him. That is where we find real reform.
On a side yet related note (ie why i’d never vote democrat), it’s sad how much of a socialist leaning our country has. Do people really think there is such a thing as a free thing? Someone, somewhere, is paying for it, and when it comes to government programs, it’s the people! Those who work and pay taxes anyway. That’s what i liked about Huckabee. His tax reform idea is much more fair. So many people don’t pay taxes and some pay a higher percentage. Everyone buys stuff and if you want to pay less taxes, buy less stuff. Then we could get a full paycheck and decide what we want to do with it. Charity should be all through private organizations. That’s not the duty of the government. Less goverment involvement is what we need or else we’d be seeing ourselves in 1984.
Sep 25th, 2008
Mrs. Watkins
Dang, i always forget to indicate who i’m talking to. The first two paragraphs are to Stephen. All others (besides the one directed to Sir Aaron) are general.
Sep 25th, 2008
Reformed Mama
Just to be super clear…voting AGAINST more dead babies is not merely “pragmatic” and is not a “gray area”…
Sep 25th, 2008
Mrs. Watkins
It’s a thing to find out where the candidates stand on those basic issues but what we should pay attention to is their agenda. A pro-life president doens’t automatically equal the cessation of infanticide. I mean, look at Bush, he was in office for 8 years and babies are still dying. I’m a realist, so i’ve accepted that babies are going to continue dying regardless.
What is so silly is one of the pro-choicer’s argument’s is how unsafe it is to get an illegal abortion. Umm…duh don’t get an abortion at all! Yes it does help to make abortion illegal, but what is more important is to show people why life is important. We shouldn’t focus on so much government involvement on this. It’s so sad that Hollywood and the media pretty much rule the world. What is in is being self-absorbed. Gone are family values. Efforts need to be to bring those back, not just asking Big Brother stop people from doing bad things.
I’m not going to kid myself into thinking that voting for someone who claims to be pro-choice will save the babies. I know death is a part of life and i can’t stop it, but my eyes are open to ways to minimize it where possible (as there will always be miscarriages, SIDS, etc.). I know we aren’t in a magical land where voting against the less evil makes everything better. Voting for McCain over Obama will just stop from things getting worse. McCain doesn’t want to repeal Roe vs. Wade and supports stem-cell research. Babies in a petri dish are still babies.
Sep 25th, 2008
Fusion!
To add to what Mrs. Watkins said, a new report says that abortions have gone done. But, They have risen in other demographics. Mainly older women and women of color. But it’s gone down in high schoolers. Something to think about. Will it make the news? I doubt it. But abortions are down. I think a grassroots effort will ultimately be what gets those rates even lower. We can do it!
read the article here: http://www.livescience.com/health/619628.html
Sep 26th, 2008
Becky
That’s good to hear. And grassroots is exactly where stuff should be happening. Every little thing counts.
Sep 26th, 2008
Becky
Ah…Frank doesn’t equal Fusion! My bad.
Okay so i can stop looking for flying pigs. I can still say i have yet to agree with Fusion. It’s only Frank, not who i thought, that i agree with. Phew!
Sep 26th, 2008
Reformed Mama
Baby steps (no pun intended…maybe it is intended) are our goal. It took a long time for our country to get off track and it will take a long time to repair. While I am no fan of W we did gain three important “steps” under his presidency:
1) As Fusion stated above, abortion is down (about 8%) since its peak in 1990.
2) The particularly EVIL practice of Partial-birth abortion was banned.
3) We have 2 new conservative Pro-life justices in the Supreme court…though we had to kick and scream a bit for one of them!
First the presidency…then new judges…overturning bad law and one day God-willing we can make abortion illegal altogether (saving nearly 1 million little potential New Reformers per year)!! Baby steps…
While Frank and others have a perfect right to vote as they please I hope in the end they will join us in voting for the McPalin ticket. I think we are all agreed that we need reform in a number of areas and that it has to be heart-motivated/”grass roots”.
If Obiden wins we will surely be walking backwards…
Sep 26th, 2008
Mrs. Watkins
Don’t know why i’m jumping between names. It’s not on purpose!
RM - I agree with all you stated. At the same time as your line down (president…judges..) is a line from the bottom. Getting those cases in court.
I do hope that enough of them vote to keep Obama out.
Sep 26th, 2008
Sir Aaron
Reformed:
I’m with you…I’m with you. I think we all agree that abortion is reprehensible and that eliminating it is an overriding concern. I just think that two Christians may differ on the best approach to the fight against abortion. I think Frank and the others are as much against abortion as you or I. They just have a different viewpoint on the best approach to combating it.
Others:
My concern primarily has been with characterization of some of the disagreements. I think there is room for disagreement and discussion on the best approach to election and the fight against abortion. I just want to emphasize to all that to disagree is one thing but calling somebody unfaithful or unscriptural is altogether another.
Sep 27th, 2008
Sir Aaron
By the way, the International papers here have Obama winning again.
Sep 27th, 2008
Mrs. Watkins
The movie An American Carol came at just the right time. I don’t even know what it is about yet, but we’re going to see it tonight. Enough media bullying from the left. Check out my blog for more info.
And what do you all think about the state of the economy? I heard they are calling Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae the Democrats’ Enron.
Oct 3rd, 2008
ROBIN
in 2weeeeeeks! well find out if anyone is sad or not regardless what we say or feel theres only one MAN above whose got the last say so no matter what color,race,religion,that our next president may be i just hope that he or she is there for the right reason and get DAMN COUNTRY BACK TO WERE IT SOPPOSE TO BE.
Oct 21st, 2008
Glen
Robin,
>> “DAMN COUNTRY BACK TO WERE IT SOPPOSE [sic] TO BE”
Question… Is our country going to hell that it is “damned?”
Oct 21st, 2008
sadinmissouri
I am very sad today, As I feel that my religious rights are very much in jeporady. That is very important to me and many others…I feel that Obama does not respect religion or life in general…However I know who is still in charge…God almightly, he will never leave us nor forsake us ~
Nov 5th, 2008
Reply to “Is Anyone Sad About Barack Obama Losing?”