Infant Baptism Revisited
In the past I have discussed infant baptism ad nausium. Since I used to be a Reformed Baptist (1689′er), the topic of baptism was in the forefront often. We (the 1689′ers) have debated and exhausted just about every angle of the topic (so we thought) of baptism, and we waved the banner of victory over our opponents. Of course these debates were “intramural,” meaning, in an “in-house” sort of way. But we were convinced from Scripture that baptism is to be given only upon a profession of faith in Jesus, and never to infants!
But the baptism debate can be much more tricky than just when and who. When dealing with Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and other apostate religions that baptize babies, one will find that such magical occurrences such as regeneration are said to take place in the administering of the sacramental baptisms, yada, yada, yada! Of course they cannot prove any of it from Scripture, so they appeal to the mystical and mythical tradition, sometimes capitalized; Tradition. But that is because they’re ignorant.
So, whether it’s Covenant Theology, Church History, the fathers, etc., what is the best argument out there for infant baptism? As an adherent to the Lord Jesus’ commands and His institution of the principle of Sola Scriptura, I reject any and all doctrines that are not exegetically verifyable in Scripture. If one has to appeal to Church history and tradition, that’s fine, so do I sometimes. I agree 100% with the fathers and 100% to tradition wherever they/it agrees with Scripture. But where they veer off into their strange pagan doctrines I do not and cannot follow.
To spark this discussion, I put forth the following:
1. Infant baptism is not authorized by Scripture.
2. Infant baptism is inconsistent with Scripture.
3. The early church did not practice infant baptism.
4. Baptism is to be given only to those that have made a profession of faith.
5. Baptism does not bring regeneration, nor does it remove sin.
6. Baptism is not to be given to babies/infants.
If anyone knows of some solid biblical arguments in favor of infant baptism, please post them in the comments section. If you believe in baptizing babies, then state your case as well. If any of the six propositions that I have put forth are refutable, then by all means, refute them! If you are a Baptist, congratulations! Just kidding.
41 Comments, Comment or Ping
Jean Cauvin
One way to think through an issue is to mentally “walk through” the reasoning of the person you disagree with. So in this instance, the questions should be posed:
1) What are the arguments used to support paedo-baptism?
When inferences are made, are the inferences valid inferences?
2) What are the logical fallacies commited to support paedo-baptism?
3) Why does church history adhere to paedo-baptism dominately?
4) Does church history add weight to the argument (or any argument)?
5) What are the origins of paedo baptism?
6) What verses are used to support paedo-baptism?
7) What exegetical fallacies are commited for support of this issue?
9) What does paedo-baptism do for the child?
10) Why would paedo communion not also apply?
You need to consistenly challenge your refutations until your confidence is solid as a rock. If I say this, what will they then say to refute me? Why would that be unsound?
Paedo-baptism is nothing more then a paedo-dirty-diaper. The question is at this point. why?
Jean Chauvin
Apr 24th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
If you’re baiting Prot’s, then these are sound questions. #10 can be lumped in with #2 (only w/prot’s), and #4 is basic for #1. #’s 9, 6, and 7 are useless against Rome and EO. #8 can also get hairy. That is why I specifically stated in the OP that the topic is extended beyond Reformed Theology. I disagree with Rome and EO too, Jean.
“The question is at this point. why?”
Why what?
Apr 24th, 2008
agogley
I’ve heard some arguments (I don’t believe in infant baptism) for such that I’ll try to post when I get time.
Apr 25th, 2008
5pointbaptist
The only scripture I struggle with while debating paedos is in Hebrews 10:29 as this is used to promote the idea that individuals can be in covenant with Christ without being regenerate.
Other than that, I am not aware of any other good arguments from that side.
Apr 25th, 2008
the BOC
There is no scripture to back up this claim. The Catholic church came up with this doctrine and it carried over into the protestant church. I don’t know if you have covered this subject in another blog, but what happens to a child if he/she dies. Does he/she go to heaven or hell? And can a child truly understand what it means to accept Jesus as your Savior?
Apr 28th, 2008
Daniel Chew
So what is BiblicalThought/ FD’s position on Infant Baptism? Does it follow the 1689 LBCF, the Westminster Confession of Faith, or neither?
Apr 28th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Daniel,
The 1689 is a good representation of what we believe Scripture teaches concerning water baptism. 2LBCF 28.2 can be disputed and therefore is not dogmatic in my view, but I don’t make a big deal about it. 2LBCF 29.4 may not be possible in some cases, therefore I do not hold dogmatically to 29.4 either. In cases where water is available, 29.4 should be followed. This is an area of the WCF (Ch. 28) that I cannot agree.
Apr 29th, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Dr. Morey
You have a very rare little book in your library (I think it is blue) on Paedo-baptism. I think it is one of the best books you have on the subject (you have said).
I do not recall the exact title or author. It’s a very small paperback. If you recall the author and title (or ISBN if it has one) please let me know so I can try to find it on my end. I would greatly appreciate it
Jean Cauvin
Apr 29th, 2008
Mike Morrow
Hi Jean I have a couple of good books on believer’s baptism
1.Infant Baptism & The Covenant of Grace by Paul K. Jewett
2. Believer’s Baptism Sign of the New Covenant in Christ by Thomas R. Schreiner & Shawn D. Write
3.Covenant Children Today Physical or spiritual? recommended by both Gene Cook Jr. and Dr. James White Alpha and Omega. Web site for this one book is http://www.rbap.net
4, Fred Malone has two but they are out of print.
May 1st, 2008
Mike Morrow
misspelled the name of the 2. Shawn D. Wright
May 1st, 2008
Dr. Morey
Baptism Not for Infants is the title of a wonderful book.
May 3rd, 2008
Mike Morrow
The little book that Dr. Bob mentioned: titled Baptism not for infants has changed it’s title called
Should infants be baptized? by T.E. Watson you can get it at http://www.biblio.com for about $6.00 plus shipping. I just got my copy today in the mail.
May 3rd, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Thanks Mike Morrow, I will get it To-Morrow.
Jean Cauvin
May 4th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Stephen,
I see. Somehow I was confused since if I’m not wrong Dr. Morey is a WTS graduate?
May 11th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Hi Daniel,
You aren’t wrong. He is a WTS grad, I believe the class with Bahnsen, Poythress, et al. We’re baptists.
Good to see you here!
May 11th, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Hi Stephen,
You’re right. His doctorate dissertation was an apologetic work on Jehovah Witnesses.
Jean Cauvin
May 11th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Stephen:
OK, but what I can’t understand is that since WTS is a Presbyterian (OPC) serminary, do they accept Baptists in as students there?
May 13th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Daniel, I don’t know the details about how they did things back then. I know they do now (accept Baptists). I was in Dr. Ron Gleason’s library and noticed some Spurgeon volumes on the shelf. I pointed them out and he said, “Yeah, we forgive him for his errors on baptism!” We laughed.
May 13th, 2008
Mario
Daniel, any relation to Andrew Chew?
May 13th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Stephen:
Well, I do not have anything against Presbyterian Seminaries training Baptists, though I’m surprised they would allow that, with them being linked to a particular Presbyterian denomination (OPC). After all, it is not like you Baptists are heretics or something like that; we still regards you as brothers and sisters in Christ (maybe with the exception of the Anabaptists =P) As for having and reading books written by Baptists, I do not see any problem with that. Even the books promoting Credobaptism are good in showing us the best arguments Credobaptists can muster, and challenge us always to formulate our beliefs according to Scripture, though I am still waiting for a book to show me why Credobaptists are right.
Mario:
Eh, no.
May 14th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Daniel,
Chris Rosebrough is teaching our apologetics class tonight. As you may know, Chris is Lutheran (LCMS). Our disagreements (yours, mine, Chris) are on non-essentials, as I mentioned in the OP – intramural. It’s a blessing to have you as my brothers on the frontlines of battle.
May 14th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Stephen:
I agree. I just wish that I have the opportunity like you guys to have so much good teaching to sit under. It’s nearly a desert where I live, and I need to pay a lot for shipping costs (for solid books that is). Trashy stuff like Warren’s PDL and Osteen’s Becoming a Better You is so available and comparatively cheap..
May 15th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Well, brother, we’ll keep that in prayer. Maybe you will be the good teaching in that desert that God has placed you in. You are in Singapore, right?
(Note to Christians reading this: let’s keep Daniel in prayer!)
I want to pick up a copy of your book soon. I have heard very good reviews so far. Do you ship to the US?
Chris did a real good job Wednesday night on the “errors of emergent.” And he’s a mac user, for those that are keeping track of that stuff! That’ll make Agogley gag (mac-hater!), but it made our multimedia crew happy!
May 16th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Hello Stephen:
yes, I am in Singapore. My book is published in US and can be bought via Amazon.com so that’s fine. Thanks for your prayers.
May 16th, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Hi Daniel,
Shall I send you some gum? Don’t forget to chew.
Jean Cauvin
May 17th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Jean,
Thanks for another unedifying and out of step comment! Keep using those words (like the good Cauvinist that you are) to the glory of God - even if all they’re intended to do is to make fun of someone’s name! Thanks for modeling godly wisdom and maturity. We’re blessed to have such old and seasoned saints like you!
Daniel,
Press on.
May 17th, 2008
Ken Silva
Daniel’s book is excellent and will be a real help for anyone who wants to know the truth concening Rick Warren’s purpose driven and man-centered drivel.
May 17th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Thanks Ken!
Your opinion is valued highly. Now that Rick Warren is claiming to be a Calvinist, Daniel can write a part two!
May 17th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Jean:
what was that about?
Stephen and Ken:
thanks.
Stephen:
Rick Warren claims to be a Calvinist? As in he believes the ‘moderate Calvinism’ of Norman Geisler? What a joke….
May 18th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Daniel,
“Rick Warren claims to be a Calvinist? As in he believes the ‘moderate Calvinism’ of Norman Geisler? What a joke….”
Believe it or not, the *joke* is much better than him just claiming to be a chosen but free proponent (Geisler-ite).
Rick Warren (on Tom Ascol’s blog) is actually claiming to be a Kuyper-ian Calvinist. Warren says that Abraham Kuyper’s influence is all throughout Purpose Driven Life.
Before you have a heart attack, read this [LINK BELOW] on Tim Brister’s blog.
BTW, Tim will be blogging here soon within a couple weeks. For those that don’t know him yet, check him out!
[LINK: http://timmybrister.com/2008/05/16/rick-warren-signs-on-to-ascols-resolution/ ]
May 18th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Stephen:
Ouch! He is beginning to sound like “I am a calvinist/arminian protestant/catholic blah blah blah…” McLaren. Can’t he just stop misappropriating terms of which he does not agree with their meanings as historically understood?
May 18th, 2008
Johnny B
The link doesn’t work.
May 18th, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Hello,
I believe in Singapore it is illegal to chew gum (a serious crime). I was merely making a Joke.
Lighten up Stephen.
Jean Cauvin
May 18th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Link to Timmy’s blog has been repaired and provided above.
May 18th, 2008
Travis
In Singapore if cought you will be caned by the police force, many briefs before going into that country. But it is beautiful, I actually went to a southern baptist church there, the pastor was from Texas, half the congergation was natives the other half american.
May 18th, 2008
Travis
This post is kinda off Infant baptism.
But, to hear RW say he is a calvinist is amazing, and that he has been a calvinist for his whole life. I must have missed that section in the purpose driven life, church….. I know he emphisises commitment, but I have seen a couple surveys done at saddleback and if my memory serves me right the people didnt know what the gospel was. (I think it was on the White Horse Inn broadcast)
May 18th, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Hi Travis,
Good point. However, most Chrisitans don’t know how to articulate the meaning and substance of the gospel.
Probably a lot of people on this board would not be able to articulate the meaning of the gospel via Scripture in its simpliest way.
Jean Cauvin
May 18th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Jean,
“Probably a lot of people on this board would not be able to articulate the meaning of the gospel via Scripture in its simpliest way.”
What makes you say that?
May 18th, 2008
Jean Cauvin
Hi Stephen,
Of course I don’t know for sure because I don’t know the people on here on a personal level. But due to my experience (in life) in general, that has been the norm.
If you have the ability to put up surveys on this blog, it would be interesting to pose the question in a comment line limited to 5 sentences to see how many people get it right. Just a suggestion.
And I’m not guessing that ALL don’t know how to articulate just probably most. This is a post I actually hope I’m wrong about.
Jean Cauvin
May 18th, 2008
Daniel Chew
Jean,
chewing gum is not illegal in Singapore, however, selling it and smuggling it into the country is.
May 19th, 2008
agogley
“And he’s a mac user, for those that are keeping track of that stuff! That’ll make Agogley gag (mac-hater!), but it made our multimedia crew happy!”
I don’t hate Macs anymore that I hate Porshes. They look great and perform well, but they’re overpriced and well, hope it doesn’t break down beause you can’t fix it yourself. I specifically don’t like Itunes. I want something that plays MP3s. That puts Apple and Sony in the same boat…
May 19th, 2008
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