Harvest Fellowship: You are in our prayers!

Jul 25, 2008

Harvest Fellowship: You are in our prayers!

Mario Herrera

33 Comments, Comment or Ping

Reformed Mama

“Yea, the Father himself is here, for he is never away from the death-beds of his children. “Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.” 1212.34″–C.H. Spurgeon

God’s grace and comfort to you Laurie family…

Jul 25th, 2008
Denise

I prayed for the family today that they would turn to Christ and find comfort and peace in Him as they go through such sorrow. 2Cor. 1 is one of my favorite passages for true comfort and encouragement.

However….(cringes), what gospel will be proclaimed at Christopher’s funeral? Given Harvest’s “gospel” its very worrisome.

(Still cringing, waiting for the fireing squad) I find that the gospel that is proclaimed and believed is the one that people die on the hill for and you know how incredibly difficult it is for people to realize their man-centered-free-will gospel was false, denying the total and absolute sovereignty of God in all things, especially salvation.

I see the death of a Christian as the perfect opportunity to proclaim The Gospel (no contexualization or need to be relevant to the world) to those present. For the elect, it will be the aroma of life and comfort and praise to the Lord of Lords; to the dead unelect, the stench of death.

May anyone who faces the loss of a loved one, truly find peace in God and Him alone…not circumstances, not knowing where the person went for eternity, but in Christ Jesus (Steve Camp had a really great article on this topic a few years back). Truly our Father holds our hand as He leads us through dark, sorrowful days. Yet we are never without hope or joy or comfort. In fact, Jesus was a man aquainted with sorrow.

Jul 25th, 2008
Derek Manning

My prayers are with this family and Harvest Fellowship. I think that it is at times likes these that we can put our theological “guns” away, and be a unified body, and pray for all concerned.

Jul 25th, 2008
Denise

Derek,

You make my point. It is exactly at times like these where we MUST be biblically precise with Truth b/c it will determine what sort of “peace” or “comfort” we give to the family. Love must be given in Truth, just as peace and comfort should be.

Doctrine better be a part of sorrow and loss as much as life and joy or else its empty words and meaningless.

Jul 25th, 2008
Stephen Macasil

Derek,

Well said. Well received!

A behind the scenes fact is that many of us have fellowship with brothers and sisters from Harvest. Our women and their women get together and do Bible studies, their men are in our men’s fellowship and discipleship groups together. So there is a close connection between the two ministries, and to the glory of God, He has been pleased to grant reformation and revival among the local body in Riverside.

Harvest has some great men and women that we thank God for, and since they personally knew Chris and are going through this experience together, we offer our prayers on their behalf that God will comfort them and be glorified through this.

We received an email from one of the guys from the ministry, and his attitude was very encouraging. Besides the emotions that comes when one is confronted with the death of a loved one, they seem to be comforted and at peace because they know that Chris has gone to be with our Lord! The attitude over there seems to be hopeful that God will glorify Himself through this and that people may wake up and recognize the brevity of life as it is compared to eternity!

Our prayers are with you HCF-ers, and we hope to see many of you tomorrow.

Jul 25th, 2008
Stephen Macasil

Denise,

We must have been posting at the same time because I just noticed yours.

Just to clarify, there is a genuine revival and reformation amongst the HCF congregation – and sound doctrine is being proclaimed and received by the power of the Holy Spirit. It hasn’t become a church-wide phenomenon with all umpteen-thousand in attendance – yet. But continue to pray because there is a “something’s happening” movement that I’ve witnessed with my own eyes…

Jul 25th, 2008
Brad Boneville

This is a sad tragedy. Nothing can be worse then loosing your own child. I also have fellowshipped with the brothers & sisters from HCF. And this has hit that community hard. My heart goes out to the Laurie family. My prayer for them is that they will all stand firm in the faith that has been given them thru Christ Jesus and in that, they will find comfort as they overcome this tragedy.

Blessings, Bradino
-Job 1:21

Jul 25th, 2008
Mario

Amen Stephen!

God is working mightily!

Jul 25th, 2008
Denise

Stephen– How I long to hear of Christians who thirst for the deep doctrines of Scripture and just want to learn of Him more and know Him more. For sure only the Holy Spirit can open eyes and hearts and enlighten His own to the wonderful truths of Scripture; truths that are anchors for our souls. May they grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ…us too! =) I’d love to see them grow in that way!!

Jul 25th, 2008
Stephen Macasil

Amen (in its simplest definition form)!

IOW, agreed.

Jul 25th, 2008
Samuel Garcia

I was gonna mention at how disturbed I was that certain people were already trying to bring up Calvinism at a time like this, but Derek Manning pulled the words out of my mouth. How sad, may God comfort them and may the Christians that surround them be filled with wisdom as to when to be silent and when to speak.

Jul 26th, 2008
Donovan Torres

brothers and sisters at faith defenders,
this is donovan, one of several HCF’ers that come to enjoy and grow within your fellowship as well as the mens discipleship. i stumbled upon this blog and reviewed the comments…i am truly blessed to see how much support we are receiving from the family and very appreciative of your prayers. the King is moving so mightily through this situation, especially within the church. the unity and sense of closeness that the Lord has brought forth within the body is amazing and we are truly becoming a tight-knit family; i pray that we may remain this way. i also pray that as a church, the church, we would take this world by storm!!! much love goes out to the family at faith defenders. Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ with incorruptible love.

One Way One Love,
Donovan

Jul 26th, 2008
Travis

My friends will be affected by this also but I must say that I was encouraged that men and women at both churches are fellowshiping together, and that revival is taking place in both churches.

Thank You Stephen for this post

Jul 26th, 2008
Travis

Correction
thank you Mario for the post and the rest for the loving comments

Jul 26th, 2008
Stephen Macasil

Donovan,

You’re a dear brother and we thank you for your reply!

Say hi to the rest of the guys and gals for us.

Jul 26th, 2008
Stephen Macasil

Hi Travis,

Haven’t heard too much from you lately. How’s everything?

Jul 26th, 2008
Mario

Donovan,

Stand firm fellow soldiers! The LORD of comfort strengthen you all and cause revival to break out in the hearts of His saints to indeed take the world by storm!

Blessings to you all……..Grace and Peace!

Jul 26th, 2008
Derek Manning

This morning, my church went out of its way to pray for HCF and the Laurie family. In addition, my wife & I continue to lift both my fellow believers at HCF and the Laurie family up in our prayers.

Jul 27th, 2008
Denise

Samuel Garcia said: “I was gonna mention at how disturbed I was that certain people were already trying to bring up Calvinism at a time like this, but Derek Manning pulled the words out of my mouth. How sad, may God comfort them and may the Christians that surround them be filled with wisdom as to when to be silent and when to speak.”

Calvinism? No one here mentioned Calvinism, Samuel.

The greatest comfort in all of Scripture is the Sovereignty of God, especially in the midst of tragedy. I hope you take the time to reade the following verses carefully (the whole chapter would be better):

Isa 40:1 Comfort, comfort my people, says your God.
Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD comes with might, and his arm rules for him; behold, his reward is with him, and his recompense before him.
Isa 40:11 He will tend his flock like a shepherd; he will gather the lambs in his arms; he will carry them in his bosom, and gently lead those that are with young.
Isa 40:13 Who has measured the Spirit of the LORD, or what man shows him his counsel?
Isa 40:14 Whom did he consult, and who made him understand? Who taught him the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and showed him the way of understanding?
Isa 40:15 Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket, and are accounted as the dust on the scales; behold, he takes up the coastlands like fine dust.
Isa 40:18 To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him?
Isa 40:19 An idol! A craftsman casts it, and a goldsmith overlays it with gold and casts for it silver chains. Isa 40:21 Do you not know? Do you not hear? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
Isa 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;
Isa 40:23 who brings princes to nothing, and makes the rulers of the earth as emptiness.
Isa 40:24 Scarcely are they planted, scarcely sown, scarcely has their stem taken root in the earth, when he blows on them, and they wither, and the tempest carries them off like stubble.
Isa 40:25 To whom then will you compare me, that I should be like him? says the Holy One.
Isa 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high and see: who created these? He who brings out their host by number, calling them all by name, by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power not one is missing.
Isa 40:27 Why do you say, O Jacob, and speak, O Israel, “My way is hidden from the LORD, and my right is disregarded by my God”?
Isa 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.
Isa 40:29 He gives power to the faint, and to him who has no might he increases strength.

Gen 50:20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

Another example is in Revelation that says God gave power fo the beast and ten horns for a time, to accomlish His will (Rev. 9:4-5; 17:6-7, 16-17).We are told of the upcoming horrors, but also we are told of HIS control and bringing it to an end for HIS glory. Indeed, God will bring vengence upon those who slaughter His people. In the end, we know Jesus is victorious and that, too is to bring comfort.

In the boat the disciples were fearful because of the storm brewing while Jesus was sleeping. They woke Him up and He calmed the storms by His word, showing HE is Master over all creation and there we should trust HIM and HIM alone. HE is our Great Shepherd and He is the Creator. His rod and His staff should comfort us.

God’s sovereign control over His creation is meant to bring comfort to His people. Truth is the ONLY thing that can truly comfort us b/c it is based in HIM (His Word is Truth; Jesus is Truth, God is the “God of Truth”).

From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, we see God in complete control of His creation, glorifying Himself in many ways. Will we trust His sovereign hand, even when it “momentarily” hurts?

May God’s own find comfort in what He proclaims, resting in Him.

Joh 14:1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Joh 14:25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.
Joh 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe.

Joh 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

Jul 28th, 2008
Mario Herrera

Denise,

You hit the nail dead center with Samuel. As I read over the comments, I could not find any mention of “Calvinism.” Samuel has controversy with God’s word. It is apparent in his writings and thoughts. Young men should not think because they have a “degree,” they are ready to sit as sages who put God’s word on the bar of reason.

The problem I see is a lack of understanding in the Lordship of Christ, which I would say reveals a potentially dangerous spiritual disease.

What we speak of is biblical thinking, we declare the truth of Scripture.

The disturbance within Samuel ultimately is with what Scripture says.

You could not have said it better Denise!

Jul 28th, 2008
Denise

Mario, exactly!

This truly grieves me to see professing Christians show anamosity toward God’s attribute of Sovereignty. It is declared on every page of Scripture, from the first verse to the last.

The anti-Lordship folks (they don’t understand what “Lord” means) want a God that is like them, but the God of Scripture is not. This is also why they have no true and abiding peace, especially during a time of mourning. Man-centeredness has NO HOPE (a word they don’t understand either–they think “hope” is wishful thinking–plop another peny into the fountain!). Utterly sad and truly poisonous.

Jul 28th, 2008
Z

God bless you Denise for your boldness and love spoken in truth. You used correct Biblical terminology especially in a time like this. God bless all of the elect all over the world. Romans 1:16.

Jul 28th, 2008
Mario Herrera

Z…….

Let’s talk soon. I am it with the phone tag! I will be available tomorrow brother! The bible study is growing! It is now on Monday nights! We miss seeing you guys!

Jul 28th, 2008
Z

Hey brother,

We miss you guys too! We’ve been really involved on Wednesday nights at our church. Please pray for us as we are reaching to the community in Anaheim. There have been 30 to 40 kids in the community that have been coming to our Children and youth Bible study. Many of the kids come from broken families who have godless parents and family members. May the Lord regenerate the parents, family members and the hearts of the children who come out on Wednesday nights.

Jul 29th, 2008
Stephen Macasil

Hi Z,

It’s great to hear that you’re involved in your local church’s ministry! We do miss you (I spoke to your in-laws recently, asked them to say hi for me!), but it is a great joy to hear your encouraging report!

Maybe we can get together sometime and pray, sing hymns, and fellowship.

Jul 29th, 2008
Mario Herrera

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/laurie-mcclure-son-2106065-church-family

Jul 29th, 2008
Samuel Garcia

Denise,

Truth is no necessary to provide comfort. I don’t blab on 24/7 if my friend’s loved one dies and I’m sure you don’t either. Sometimes all that is needed is silence, company, and prayer. When they are ready, you can speak, and still, only in a limited fashion so as not to touch any sore spots needlessly. I will not debate this obvious point.

I do find it laughable however that people outright assume that I am a Calvinist since I mentioned that it was a bad time to talk about it. That’s a pretty big logical jump, a fallacy. Just because I tell a Christian not to talk about politics to an unbeliever when he should be evangelizing does not mean that I think politics is useless. Please, try to treat people fairly.

Oh, and BTW, I’m a Calvinist.

Mario says,

“I could not find any mention of “Calvinism.” Samuel has controversy with God’s word. It is apparent in his writings and thoughts. Young men should not think because they have a “degree,” they are ready to sit as sages who put God’s word on the bar of reason.”

My obvious (!) point was not that the word “Calvinism” was used but that the grief of the Laurie family was quickly becoming a defense of that doctrine in the original post and in some comments that followed it up. You guys sound more like JW’s who say “the Bible doesn’t even say Trinity!”

I have controversy with God’s word? “Controversy”? What does that even mean? Would you rather I be an “evanjellyfish”? Or would you rather me accept your pastor’s teaching without question? My study of Scripture revolves around wanting to know God more and stripping those things I’ve learned that aren’t necessary inferences from Scripture.

That’s interesting that my “degree” (I must have bought it at the local swap meet or something and not have studies strenuously at an accredited institution for four years) lends me no credibility whatsoever. Shoot, even an atheist has credibility for something (!). Somehow I put Scripture under the bar of reason.

Mario, I ask you to be fair. When was the last time you spoke to me? Have you even tried to defend your views on my blog? Have you prayed for me at all? Have you attempted to walk a mile in my shoes? I’m sorry to say that you are not being loving to me in the least and that it actually hurts me. I remember saying hi to you on Sundays and admiring your willingness to learn and your diligence to study God’s word. Am I not worthy of even 1% of your respect?

Merely the thoughts of a “professing” Christian,

-Sam (AKA “The Deceiver”)

Jul 29th, 2008
Z

Hey Stephen,

It’s great to hear from you. Maybe one day when we have time we could get together. God bless. Romans 1:16.

Jul 29th, 2008
Denise

Well Sam,

Mario said it all very well. I will say that you haven’t even touched the Scripture I used to support what I said. GOD comforts His people by the declaration of His sovereignty control, and we should too. Its too bad you seemed to miss that whole point in your anger.

In fact you declared this anti-biblical statement:”Truth is no necessary to provide comfort.”

That is false because of the Scriptures I had already posted. True comfort and peace comes from the God of Truth. HE does not comfort in lies. Comfort comes in KNOWING HIM PERSONALLY and holding fast to what HE has said is true, in spite of how we might “feel”. Frankly, your low view of Truth and high view of man is worrisome.
Credibility comes from knowing HIM and His Word, not from degrees. Paul counted all of that as dung, and sought Christ alone. His credibility wasn’t his education or knowledge of Hebrew, but this:

Php 3:8 Indeed, I count EVERYTHING AS LOSS because of the SURPASSING WORTH OF KNOING CHRIST Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and BE FOUND IN HIM, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith–
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Instead of man-centeredness being the core of your view, I pray that you come to know Christ Jesus and the Word, not through mere wisdom of men, but by the Spirit of Truth and the living and active Word of God….spiritual things are spiritually taught. School will never qualify a person for Christ or ministry, only the Holy Spirit of Truth can. May you starve for HIM and His Word.

Jul 29th, 2008
Mario Herrera

I removed my previous comment as I felt this blog is not the proper place to discuss these things. Let’s continue to pray for the Laurie family and the church. May the Lord use this circumstance to His glory! The shall know we are His disciples if we love one another! Have to take heed to the most recent post!

Jul 29th, 2008
Denise

Mario, I totally understand and will go with that as well….maybe another catagory?

Jul 30th, 2008
Mario Herrera

Will get it going Denise! It is a definite concern about many!

Jul 30th, 2008
Samuel Garcia

I won’t debate the obvious point I made about comfort not needing the explicit statements of truth Denise. I already mentioned this and will not argue something 99% of people will understand as self-evident. You assume tons of things about me which is funny since you don’t know me at all. Let’s just let it go yeah?

Mario, I quickly skimmed your post last night before bed and saw that you left me your number so that we could meet up sometime. That would be really cool, but I didn’t get to write it down and now I see you took it down. So can I get that from you if you’re still willing? My email is samuel.garcia@biola.edu. Thanks.

Jul 30th, 2008

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Harvest Fellowship: You are in our prayers!

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