Guest Blogger Denise Asks: Can a Christian Also be a Muslim? (Pt. 2 of 2)
Last time I shared with you how “Evangelicals” are proclaiming that Muslims and Christians have the same God. Now that they have established that idea, they can easily move into merging the practice of Islam with Christianity.
A few weeks ago I found a copy of the Mission Frontiers booklet at the back of the church we’ve been visiting. Mission Frontiers is headed by Ralph Winter. He is founder of the U.S. Center for World Mission, and is currently chancellor of William Carey International University. Go here for a taste of his ecumenical and pluralistic mission views.
The booklet I picked up is also online here. In the booklet, one article “Muslims Who Believe the Bible” states: (Emphasis, mine)
Quote:
Reading the Gospel helps them to interpret the Qur’an.
When Muslims read the graphic and detailed accounts of the death and resurrection of Jesus, and see that it was a fulfillment of what the prophets foretold and in accord with God’s plan of salvation, they find grounds to agree with the minority opinion. By believing the Bible and letting it be their guide to the interpretation of the Qur’an, they become rooted in the Bible, and we could call them “biblical” or at least “sub-biblical” Muslims. In their opinion, however, they are simply being better Muslims by submitting to all of God’s books and prophets. (The word “Muslim” means one who submits to the rule of God.)
As Muslims ponder these mysteries and pray for guidance, it is not uncommon for them to have a dream or vision that confirms the Scriptures and calls them to follow Jesus the Messiah as their Lord and Savior. Thus they become what we could call “Messianic Muslims.” In their own opinion, however, they are simply being better Muslims by submitting to the Messiah whom God sent to guide and save them.
End quote.
They have to have a dream or vision that confirms Scripture? What? That’s mysticism. Man cannot confirm the validity of Scripture. It is GOD who does that. Those silly dreams Muslims have had gave them stupid stories like a rock that stole Moses’ clothes and ran away so he had to chase after it just to get them back (Hadith Volume 1, Book 5, Number 277). Dreams gave them talking trees and camel urine to drink and a rock to bow down to and kiss. They are deceived and cannot understand the things of God and are not seeking God (1Cor. 2:14; Rom. 3:10-18).
The Quran denies the crucifixion of Jesus as well as denying HIM as God. Scripture does not make a Muslim a better Muslim. Rather it condemns him thoroughly (Gal. 1:7-9 for instance). As well, the Word says:
1Jo 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
Jesus said (John 5:46) If you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me.
(John 8:47) “Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
If what Jesus said is true of the Jews, it is equally true of Muslims who give lip service to the Bible but deny all of what it says. Jesus said in Matt. 6:21-24 that no one can serve two masters. Not money and God, not Baal and Christ, not the World and Him. It’s always one or the other. He destroyed many Israelites for doing so.
Another article in the Mission Frontiers booklet is called, “Can A Muslim Be A Follower Of Christ?” It is an excerpt from the book, Pilgrims of Christ on the Muslim Road by Paul-Gordon Chandler . Notice the utter lack of being Christ-centered and the love-fest of man-centeredness.
Quote:
“When Muslim followers of Christ leave their cultures to become “Christians,” they can often end up in an even worse faith condition.
He recalls being deeply influenced in this area by the writings of E. Stanley Jones, the Methodist minister who served in India in the first half of the twentieth century. Jones loved the Hindu and Muslim cultures in which he found himself, and respected them, demonstrating a spirit of humility.
Over the years, Mazhar slowly realized that following Christ does not require him to be against his own self, but rather that following Christ is all about enhancing and fulfilling his true identity.
Today Mazhar is very proud of his heritage and identifies himself as a Muslim according to his family, people, and culture, and enjoys breathing that air. Yet he also openly shares that he loves and follows Christ. He enjoys praying and meditating in the quiet reverent atmosphere of a mosque, where he sits on the carpeted floor and reads his Bible and loves to talk with people about his and their faith. While there, he often visits the sheiks and imams, who are his friends. He has kept a lot of the Muslim practices, from using “Muslim” greetings and prayers, to fingering his Islamic prayer beads, to reciting the character of God (or meditating on sections of the Scriptures, such as the Psalms, particularly phrases like “the Lord is my shepherd”), to spending a lot of time in Arab cafés.
He leads most of his studies of the Gospels with others in the Arab cafés or in mosques. Mazhar, after all these years of following Christ, still feels the pull of the culture when he hears the call to prayer or the Qur’an melodiously chanted.
(Paul-Gordon Chandler is a U.S. Episcopal priest serving in the Middle East. He grew up in Muslim West Africa and has lived and worked extensively throughout the Islamic world with churches, Christian publishing, and relief and development agencies. He is the author of God’s Global Mosaic.)
End quote.
Muslims are defined as such because they follow the Quran and the Hadiths, which dictate everything they do, eat, and practice; indeed it defines the very culture Mazhar wants to keep. He is dictated by demonic books and yet finds peace in doing so. This is not biblical Christianity. It’s following the god of this world and slapping Jesus’ name on it.
In reality there is a heavy price to pay for belonging to Christ Jesus:
Mat 10: 34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
1Jn 3:12 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you.
Ruth 1:16 But Ruth said, “… Your people shall be my people, and your God my God.”
Why do “Christians” cling so desperately to the things of the flesh and that which identifies itself with the kingdom of darkness instead of that which is of Christ and HIS kingdom? This ought not to be.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
2Cor. 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Cor. 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Cor. 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Cor. 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
2Cor. 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.”
The Gospel is foreign to the world and so are those who belong to Him. We are saved from the ways of the world and its thinking, why would we ever continue in the dung of it? Remember Eph. 2:1-3 and Phil. 3:1-11.
15 Comments, Comment or Ping
Maurice
How can there be a one-world government/religion if you can’t merge all things into all things. This process has been long in the making, but I am surprised to see even the blending of Islam, where they kill their own for not being Muslim enough. Surely we are close to all heaven breaking loose.
Aug 21st, 2008
Sir Aaron
With all that’s going on with Russia, China, Iran, and Israel, it certainly looks foreboding.
Aug 21st, 2008
Tom N-U
Great job!
You asked :
“Why do “Christians” cling so desperately to the things of the flesh and that which identifies itself with the kingdom of darkness instead of that which is of Christ and HIS kingdom? _
So-called “Christians” desperately cling because they are part of the world system (kingdom of darkness). The term “Christian” has become so meaningless that I refer to myself as a “Christ Follower”. one who not only “believes” in Jesus Christ but who daily chooses to follow Him.
Once again, very good article.
Aug 21st, 2008
Stephen Macasil
Denise,
Ralph Winter is an idiot. Thanks for exposing his views. Now readers can see that he and others that are like him, are unreliable spiritual guides and should be rejected among the brethren.
All we need now is the bright pink background, and BAM!!!
Thanks, sister, you have blessed us with these two posts.
Where do we send the check?
Aug 21st, 2008
Denise
Tom–thank you.
LOL Stephen. I accept Paypal.
It was my pleasure. May the Lord be glorifed as His Truth shines in the ever-increasing dark days.
I wonder how many other folks got hold of that Missions booklet? I’m afraid to guess. =(
Stephen, I think what worries me is not just Ralph Winter (I think he’s slipped a cog or maybe just showing his true colors) but those who proclaim the idea that the Muslims have God (they set the groud work for Winter and his ilk to easily add Islamic practices to Jesus). Bill Barrick, who’s at The Master’s Seminary is an example. His quoting of Timothy George and Ima Shehadeh to explain his similar view is cause for great concern, as the Shepherd’s Conference and TMS are considered solid.
Aug 22nd, 2008
Glen
About Dr Barrick…
I just listened to his presentation at the Shepherd’s Conference. From what I heard I’m not quite sure what to make out. Here’s what I heard…
1. The name of Allah is used in Arabic the way we would use God in English. We use the name of God to refer to God Himself and also to false gods. We could also use it to refer to our car if we make that a god in our life. From what I understand of what Dr. Barrick said that is the same way Allah is used in Arabic.
2. There are many similar and many different points that we as Christians and Muslims would have in the “idea” of God/Allah. I can accept Dr Barrick’s first point, but I’m not sure what to make of this one (mostly from my lack of knowledge of the Muslim faith). From what he said a Muslim believes that Allah is self-existent as we do about God. However, a Muslim would deny the deity of Christ as God and also the Holy Spirit, this would be a difference.
While I can accept that there may be many points that a Christian and Muslim would agree about in reference to God/Allah it would still be a hard sell for me to be told that God/Allah are the same (other than that the term is the same, see point 1, not that they are the same “entity”).
Thoughts… I’m still trying to work the definitions through.
Aug 22nd, 2008
Arnie Walker
How can the Muslim god and the Christian God be the same when from what I understand the Quran states that Allah is the greatest of all deceivers and the bible says that the biblical God cannot lie?
Aug 22nd, 2008
Reformed Mama
Well done Denise…I always learn something from you!
My fav is this quote: “The Gospel is foreign to the world and so are those who belong to Him. We are saved from the ways of the world and its thinking, why would we ever continue in the dung of it?”
Why would we??
God’s grace to you and your family…
Aug 22nd, 2008
Denise
Glen,
If you get the time, check out the two videos of Dr. Bob Morey in Part 1 where he goes over the name of Allah. Allah is the name of the Moon God in pre-Islamic Arabia. Muhammad merely picked Allah to be THE god out hundreds of deities they worshipped and hence they have “Allah” as “God”.
There’s another good article I would like to point you to, dealing with the very same issue: http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-23-3.htm MacArthur in part says:
“Allah is another name for Satan because “the Allah of Islam” is not the true and living God. You have to be very careful when you go into a missionary effort with people by taking their deity and somehow turning that deity in the true God…you create a confusion. The fact of the matter is all false religions have a god or gods, and to call some entity of your own manufacturing or some demon or Satan himself “god” doesn’t make it so. The Allah of Islam is not God…is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is not the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
… I think you have to make a clean break with that and I think that that is very important. I mean, I wouldn’t go to somebody worshipping an idol and say, “Well, let me tell you who this god really is.” What I would say is, “That is a demonic substitute for the true and living God. That is not any representation of the true God.” Call Him what you will. Everybody calls him “God”… The Hindus have millions of entities that they call “God”; none of them are God…none of them.”
When Muslims speak of Allah they are referring to a very specific god:
Allah commanded Satan and the angels to worship Adam (Surah 2:34; 7:11; 38:75-76)
Allah had to create mercy and ordain it on himself (Surah 6:12; Surah 6:54)
Allah’s light had to be perfected (Surah 9:32; 61:8)
Allah IS mutable
Allah has no Son
Allah is the greatest of deceivers (Surah 3:54; 8:30)
Allah teaches sexual immorality is a reward in paradise (72 virgins are given as well as “fresh boys”) (Surah 52:24; 56:17; 76:19; 37:48; Hadith :the Book of Sunan (volume IV)
Allah commands the beating of wives if they are rebellious (Surah 4:34)
When Muslims speak of “God”, THIS is of whom they speak.
Yet Scripture says, Isa 40:25: To whom then will you compare me that I should be like him? says the Holy One.
There are no similiarities between Allah and YAWEH. Satan shares nothing in common with God. However, he might try to sell himself as such, but he still is not. It would like saying the Mormon Jesus is similar to our Jesus, when in fact there’s no resemblance (sp) whatsoever.
Just some things to consider.
Aug 25th, 2008
Glen
For a linguistic question… What would the Arabic title for God be?
Denise,
I see your point. How would you answer a Muslim that says they believe that God is self-existent? There are definitely differences between God and Allah (which make them different), but are there not some (however few, and this does not make them the same) similarities (just curious)?
… Train of thought. My wife and I each have 10 fingers, but that does not make us the same. We are different distinct people. I would not try to describe my wife by starting with my 10 fingers and then branching out from there to the differences, I would simply tell them about her.
Aug 25th, 2008
Glen
Denise,
I read the Q&A from MacArthur. Great read! I can see where this can get a little confusing simply on the linguistics. Dr. MacArthur in the Q&A gave his opinion on what we should call God in Arabic, but I would still like to see what others who know more than I would suggest.
About Dr Barrick, I still think that he is being misunderstood and I can see why. At first glance I would also think that he might be saying that Allah and the God of Christianity are the same, but I think that he is simply saying this from a linguistic point (and disagreed with by Dr MacAruthur). Knowing where he teaches (under Dr MacArthur) I would be shocked if he actually believed that Allah and the God of Christianity are the same. I think that he simply could have used different quotes and made himself clearer. I hope this is the case otherwise we need to start really watching what is coming out from the conservative side now.
Aug 26th, 2008
Sir Aaron
do you have a link for the answers by Dr. MacArthur?
Aug 26th, 2008
Glen
The link for the Q&A from Dr MacArthur is in the post by Denise above for http://www.biblebb.com. It’s a good read.
Aug 26th, 2008
Denise
Hi Glen,
In a nut shell, Imad Shehadeh says (caps for emphasis only as I can’t do “bold” here)
*”Muslims and Christians may speak of the SAME SUBJECT, THE *TRUE GOD, but they have different concepts of Him….”
*”Christians and Muslims BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD”
“Muslims and Christians may believe in SAME GOD AS SUBJECT”
Imad Shehadeh signed the “Christian Response to ‘A Common Word Between Us and You’” which states Muslims and Christians DO worship the same God.
Timothy George says:
““Is the Father of Jesus the God of Muhammad? The answer is surely YES and No.”
“Christians and Muslims CAN TOGETHER AFFIRM many important truths about THIS GREAT GOD-his oneness, eternity, power, majesty. As the Qur’an puts it, he is “the Living, the Everlasting, the All-High, the All-Glorious” (2:256). But the answer is also No, for Muslim theology rejects the divinity of Christ and the personhood of the Holy Spirit-both essential components of the Christian understanding of God.”
Barrick says he prefers the view of Shehadeh and George over Caner & Caner who clearly say that
“…Christians and Muslims DO NOT WORHIP THE SAME GOD unless Muslims wish to agree that Jesus is God and Lord. The popular notion that Jews, Christians, and Muslims ALL WORSHIP THE SAME GOD is IS BLASPHEMOUS to all three religions and found only in modern pluralism.” - Caner &Caner
I am privy to documents (on file) and discussions with Barrick who indeed does hold to the position that while the Muslims ( and the cults like LDS) are lost, they HAVE the same God, although “its sameness in part, not in whole” (the semantics game is alive and well, so you have to parse the question clearly, correctly, and repeatedly). After all, in his reasoning, they have the Old Testament (even though the Muslims’ view is totally based on the Quran).
What is also missing from what Barrick says about Allah, is all the attributes of Allah prove he is NOT God in any way. Like George and Shehadeh, Barrick merely proclaims the attributes that seem in common with Yahweh, which is dishonest in dealing with this very issue if you ask me.
Glen, you really are seeing the liberalism come out of even TMS and that indeed is what concerns me (there is also an OT prof there that believes one can be an Open Theist and a Christian). These liberal types (ecumenical, pluralist/syncretism) are within “solid” venues now. I see why Spurgeon was so urgent in his fight with the Downgrade in his day. Its happening again.
Aug 28th, 2008
Glen
WOW… This is disappointing.
Aug 28th, 2008
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