Brian Brodersen: Dropping the Ball on Pastor’s Perspective
While driving home today, I tuned in to 107.9FM (Calvary Chapel’s KWVE - the Wave of Living Water). The show Pastor’s Perspective was airing; a live call-in format where listeners call and ask the panel of pastors questions that the pastors try to answer. Towards the end of today’s show, a guy called in from Hawthorne, a bedraggled fellow, going through a difficult time in life. He mentioned that he was in therapy, had ADHD, and that recently his boss (a female) hit him with the side of her fist while in a fuss-fight. One of the hosts, Pastor Brian Brodersen, I think, mentioned that it is illegal for a boss to hit an employee. He later went on record to disclose that he did not recommend a lawsuit, but that the guy from Hawthorne should take some sort of legal action. The guy said that it was not like him to go through all of the legal procedures, but asked pastor Brian if that was his advice, to go through with legal action. Before pastor Brian could answer, the guy asked, “or do you think I should talk about this with my therapist?”
Now, here is where I think he dropped the ball. Instead of answering whether or not the therapist should be consulted or not, pastor Brian rightly suggested that the guy speaks to his own pastor about it. I think this is good advice. Brodersen asked, “do you have a church that you attend out there in Hawthorne?” The guy answered, “yes.” Brodersen asked, “which one?” The guy answered, “St. Joseph’s, it’s a Roman Catholic Church.” Brodersen continued the conversation, not making any reference to the potential eternal damnation that the guy may face if he does not embrace the risen Christ alone for his salvation, and simply ended the call by saying, “you should talk to your pastor.” Am I splitting hairs here, or is this an issue that Pastor Brian Brodersen, or anyone representing Calvary Chapel on the airwaves, should have addressed?
21 Comments, Comment or Ping
5pointbaptist
Would expect nothing less from Calvary Chapel. It falls under the category of “as long as you proclaim Christ your ok.”
Sad indeed.
Jan 4th, 2008
agogley
First there isn’t anything necessarily wrong with taking appropriate action on such an employment violation. I find it odd that they would need to clarify that but failed to find out if the person has actually accepted Christ as their Savior. Whether or not CC recognizes the problems with the RCC, going to church, even a Protestant one, does not equate to being saved. They should have inquired into his spiritual condition regardless of the denomination he attended.
Jan 4th, 2008
agogley
After showering, I had a bunch of thoughts come to me.
Is your complaint simply about allowing him to seek counsel at his local RCC or are you asking for a critique as a whole? You aren’t going to get much argument here about the errors of the RCC. Most of us are going to agree with you that leaving him to his RCC Priest isn’t much better than leaving him with his therapist (Although many people including pastors do not share this view). I have more problems with the advice, the least of which is the RCC bit. I could expound, but I’m not sure what your primary objection is.
Jan 4th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
When I said that I thought he dropped the ball, I was referring to the absence of Christian pastoral admonishing in the most general and basic sense. CC is somewhat widely outspoken on the false church of Rome, calling them the whore of Babylon, etc. Many CC pastors (Pancho Juarez, Jack Hibbs, Raul Ries, to name a few), have been criticized by RC’s because of their reputation as “anti-catholic’s.”
As I mentioned, I thought Brodersen was correct in directing this problem to the local church. This also reveals that he assumed that the caller was a Christian. Rightly, Brodersen asked if the caller had a church. When the caller answered affirmatively, and when Brian learned that it was a RCC - and said nothing whatsoever to the caller regarding the CC position, which is that popery is a false religious system, I think he dropped the ball.
Jan 5th, 2008
Reformed Mama
Stephen,
We listen to quite a bit of 107.9 and 99.5 around our house and you are correct, CC in general, is outspoken on the false church of Rome (waiting on Eastern Orthodoxy to be included as well)! I’m actually a little surprised Brian did not address this with the caller. I have been amazed at Brian’s Saturday night teachings of late, minus a few doctrinal issues, he has been doing a decent job including the Reformers and such in his preaching.
BTW, 99.5 has pulled Raul Reis from the M-F, 7:00 pm slot and replaced him with Steve Mays. Perhaps Mario should do what needs to be done.
Jan 5th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
I will give him the secret hand signal at the proper time.
Jan 5th, 2008
Mario
Things just keep tugging at me to do this! Pray for this and myself. In light of Jon’s article, all this must be addressed. Interesting that St. Joseph’s church is where my parents attended and dragged us along most of our lives! Definitely needs to be addressed that these people are apostate! May Broderson didn’t want to “rock” the boat. We here at biblicalthought.com don’t want to simply “rock” the boat, we want to sink it!!!!!!!!!
Jan 5th, 2008
Travis
I know quit well about Calvary Chapel seeing I came out of it and was a “assistant” pastor. And I have to agree with the comment on “as long as you preach Jesus” thats all that matters. Not all pastors are like that in the Horizon, Vineyard, Calvary Chapel movement but a majority. They steer clear of apologetics and lean towards “preaching” the gospel and showing only love to man kind.
Jan 5th, 2008
Travis
As Mario says they don’t want to “rock” the boat. I have had recent conversations with friends and we talked about all kinds of issues: open theism, mockery, Rick Warren etc. and my friend rebuked me “in Love” saying you need to be careful who you call heretics and apostates. I replied “you are correct” I do need to be careful but I also need to let it be known. I then proceeded to let him know he needs to be watchful who he calls Christian. Thats where it ended. We are still friends though, I guess I wasnt hard enough on him…just kidding.
Jan 5th, 2008
Maurice
The issue the caller had was “how do I handle my boss hitting me”? This is not a “counseling” problem. The fact he’s in therapy explains why he doesn’t know what to do when bosses hit you. And the fact he’s seeing a therapist indicates that he didn’t want help from his “pastor” in the first place. I thought Brian should have recommended the employee file a complaint with his HR department and if not satisfied, go the State of Ca. EDD. He should not have suggested he go to his priest for guidance since his priest is already guiding him to hell as it is. But I can understand Brian not going into the pros and cons (”cons” look for double meaning) of the RCC. It’s a judgement call. Sometimes a “hi, how you doin?” is all you should do, instead of “hi you heretical, apostate, anti-christ”. You can’t and shouldn’t always be in full volume attack mode. So I guess we differ on both points, the caller shouldn’t have been referred to his church since it’s the RCC (the less to do with them the better) and you don’t always have to call a whore a whore.
Jan 5th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
“He should not have suggested he go to his priest for guidance since his priest is already guiding him to hell as it is.”
Maurice, thank you.
“You can’t and shouldn’t always be in full volume attack mode.”
I agree with this as a general principle. However, in the context of Christian ministry, more specifically as a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ, even more specifically as Brian Brodersen, #2 man of Calvary Chapel, a Christian denomination entrusted with the souls of thousands (at least - millions?), full-volume commitment to the truth in love when “in-role” should be the norm.
Perhaps this would have been more acceptable, while the guy is still on the line, or after he hung up, but while still on the air: “We just want our listeners out there to know that Calvary Chapel does not believe that the Roman Catholic Church is a true church, and that it is our belief, based on the Bible, that if a person follows the RCC teachings on salvation, that they will be misled and end up in hell. We preach the message that salvation is not by works, and is through Jesus Christ alone for the forgiveness of sins. We would like you to know that if you are attending a RCC, that you face eternal consequences if you do not receive Christ as your personal savior.”
Something as basic as that would have served a greater purpose because when it is aired without apparent contention, it gives the impression that it is OK. The reason why I agreed with his referring the caller to his own pastor was, first, he wasn’t aware that he attended a RCC. Second, Brodersen was operating as a para-church organization (radio show), and he was asked to give personal advice to the caller.
Something like this probably wouldn’t have happened on Bob Morey Live!
Jan 5th, 2008
Maurice
Yes, I have to agree with you when you put it that way. A statement of fact like that would have been quite proper and very appropriate especially in the context of his position and the radio ministry. I guess one should at least point out that the whore of Babylon is a whore, when you see a guy waiting in line with money in hand. Dr. Bob’s reply to “Where do I go for answers, my priest or my psychologist?” could have been a whole show.
Jan 6th, 2008
agogley
With what we know about the conversation, I think referring him to his local pastor was not the best advice. Too often we refer people to their pastors instead of offering appropriate Biblical counsel at the time. The guy called and wanted to know about a singular incident about his boss hitting him. But it was obvious to me that (1) You don’t normally go from a good relationship with your boss to her hitting you. There had to be a series of events that led to this (2) the caller indicates he sees a therapist. This indicates he has many other issues that he is dealing with besides this matter (3) the caller is seeking help from non-Biblical counsel and then secondarily from a talk show. This certainly shows the guy is not getting the help he needs from the church he’s attending and is desperately reaching out to anybody he can. He’s either not saved or he’s seriously off track. Referring him back to his church, much less an RCC, was not very good advice without at least inquiring into his salvation (more so when you know he is Catholic but even others say they go to Church but mean only on Easter).
Advice I would have given:
“I don’t have all the facts related to your situation so it’s hard to give you specific advice. I can say that from a Biblical view, it is not wrong to take appropriate steps to protect yourself from harm by your supervisor. I believe you are leaving something out because I don’t think her hitting you was a result of a one-time event. Therefore, I suspect that there are a lot of details that we would need to examine before recommending an appropriate course of action. Unfortunately, we don’t have time during this talk show to delve into that right now so you are going to have to find some solid Biblical counsel.
A therapist is not going to provide you with Biblical counsel, therefore, I can’t recommend that you see a therapist. I don’t know if you attend a solid Biblical church, but you are certainly welcome to visit my own church where we have staff to offer you Biblical advice.
Lastly, I’m concerned about your spiritual condition. That you have a therapist indicates you are struggling with other issues besides this singular incident. I’d like to tell you that there is no more important issue than salvation [then I'd provide an overview of what it means to be saved and ask him if he has been saved].”
Jan 6th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
agogley, you nailed it brother!
Prov. 27:17
Jan 6th, 2008
Reformed Mama
Stephen,
You’ve got “peeps”…they missed you today!
Jan 6th, 2008
Mario
Sholey did!!!!!!!!
Jan 6th, 2008
Christian
I actually listened to the recording a couple times and I’m pretty sure that Pastor Brian didn’t hear what the caller said about his church being a Catholic church. I barely heard it and only the beginning and end…the only reason I knew what he said is because I read this thread. I recommend listening to the archive file found on kwve.com.
The call did not contain the quote “It’s a Roman Catholic Church.” Instead, the only audible portion says “It’s Ca……..ch.”
Also, Brian was talking over the talk of the caller and mostly likely did not hear the comment at all. Brian was wearing headphones and could hear his own voice quite loudly. This would also explain why he didn’t hear the caller’s comment.
So really, pastor Brian didn’t drop the ball.
Jan 12th, 2008
John
I attend a calvary chapel. Calvarys are funny sometimes. They want to err on the side of grace, but sometimes its just mans grace and not God’s.
Pastors in CC are taught to be vague and non-confrontational over doctrinal issues. Sidestepping this land mine would not be out of character.
John
Feb 18th, 2008
Stephen Macasil
As you can see from a couple of comments prior to this one, KWave has responded in Broderson’s defense. Listen for yourself folks, the audio is indisputable when “St. Joseph’s” is mentioned. There is some crosstalk during “Catholic Church” but not during St. Joseph’s. That’s clear.
Attention all K-WAVERS: FREE DISCERNMENT TEST!
1. What is a saint?
2. Are saints worshipped or venerated in *any* case?
3. Do any religions acknowledge dead saints?
4. Do any religions venerate dead saints?
5. Which religion[s] pray to dead saints?
6. Do these religions ever name their facilities or organizations after dead saints?
7. What would be your immediate inclination about someone if you learned that they attended St. Jose’s Cathedral?
8. Who is St. Joseph?
9. Are there any Christian Gospel churches named St. Joseph’s?
10. If one of your friends stopped attending Calvary Chapel and you found out they were attending some place called St. Joseph’s, what would you instinctively think?
Feb 18th, 2008
agogley
Whether Brian heard it was a Catholic Church or not, he dropped the ball. Not knowing makes it worse, not better. What if the Church was Mormom or JW? Wouldn’t you expect him to ask?
Feb 19th, 2008
John
In years past many catholics came to Christ under the preaching of our pastor. God did a great saving work in their hearts, I was asked “should we go back to the catholic church”? I told them that if they were getting fed at the church, why come here? If the watering trough is empty Im not going to send you back to thirst. Since it took your leaving that church to be saved, I suggest staying out if it. I wanted them (and there were many) to realize the impulse that took them out of that church to find Christ savingly was God and going back to their traditions instead of Gods Word would harm their new walk with Christ and not help it.
Others, that were from dead denominational churches, or some mormons, I told them simply “never go back”.
From some folks I got the frown, others liked what I said, but all of them were leary about telling them to ‘not’ to go back to their old churches. I refused to send the living to feed among the dead.
Feb 23rd, 2008
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